Amp Master

Question:

I’ve been considering buying a new amp, and need some advice from the experts here. I have an Epi Les Paul standard, and my goal is to sound similar to my favorite bands Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Hendrix, etc. I love the late 60s early 70s classic rock sound, and want an amp that will sound like that. I’m not interested in modern rock, or heavy metal as my main goal is to get the classic rock sound, but I want to be able to play a decent clean sound as well (although this is second priority to classic rock distortion). I really really need a master volume (so I can get distortion at lower volumes and not piss off the neighbours…too much) With that being said, I want to know if the Marshall JCM-2000 DSL 50 is appropriate for me: 1. Can I get close to that "vintage" Marshall distortion in a small room without going deaf? 2. How does this compare to the JCM800, JCM900, 59 plexi reissue? 3. Any other amps that you would suggest for me to look at given my situation? Thanks for any and all advice, and please excuse my ignorance if I am totally wrong about something. I consider myself a beginner and just want to make an informed purchase. Babak.

Response:

you might be surprised to learn that Jimmy Paige recorded most of these studio songs with a fender champ amplifier, using a couple outboard effects units; an echo plex and a studio plate reverb. hendrix used a vox wha wha pedal and hendrix used a marshall plexi, fuzz face distortion pedal and a big muff distortion pedal. The big muff is still made by electro harmonix. black sabbath is straight school of big muff distortion. although some might argue also MXR distortion plus pedal and fuzz face pedal. if these had a marshall master model they might not have used the fuzz boxes at all, and some of us would say that pure tube distortion is even better, I certainly do think so. Yes JCM 900, 800 are most fine with a couple small secret modifications that you may request, if you want to know. I would not buy a mesa boogie, but you might want to have a look at bogner and eggnator amps. These impress me as being very well made and i love the sound. Of course marshall set the pace for all chain saw grinder amplifiers and are very well made, but you want the newer not the vintage one, not the plexi. marshall power brake is good for marshall, "power soak" i would avoid, it tends to lunch the output transformer. you have engaged on the quest for the ultimate rock and roll amplifier…have fun with it. – mykey aka captain crunch

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve been considering buying a new amp, and need some advice from the > experts here. > I have an Epi Les Paul standard, and my goal is to sound similar to my > favorite bands Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Hendrix, etc. I love the late > 60s early 70s classic rock sound, and want an amp that will sound like > that. I’m not interested in modern rock, or heavy metal as my main > goal is to get the classic rock sound, but I want to be able to play a > decent clean sound as well (although this is second priority to classic > rock distortion). > I really really need a master volume (so I can get distortion at lower > volumes and not piss off the neighbours…too much) > With that being said, I want to know if the Marshall JCM-2000 DSL 50 is > appropriate for me: > 1. Can I get close to that "vintage" Marshall distortion in a small > room without going deaf?

If you buy a power brake yes. If you turn your preamp to 10 and your power amp to .5 then no. > 2. How does this compare to the JCM800, JCM900, 59 plexi reissue?

It’s a totally different amp. > 3. Any other amps that you would suggest for me to look at given my > situation?

Any used low wattage tube amp. Chris

Response:

>you might be surprised to learn that Jimmy Paige >recorded most of these studio songs with a fender >champ amplifier, using a couple outboard effects >units; an echo plex and a studio plate reverb. >hendrix used a vox wha wha pedal and >hendrix used a marshall plexi, fuzz face distortion >pedal and a big muff distortion pedal. The big muff >is still made by electro harmonix. black sabbath >is straight school of big muff distortion. >although some might argue also MXR distortion >plus pedal and fuzz face pedal.

Hendrix died the year before the Big muff was produced and MXR didn’t exist until years later. >if these had a marshall master model they might >not have used the fuzz boxes at all, and some of >us would say that pure tube distortion is even >better, I certainly do think so.

I can understand if you disagree, but what is wrong with the sound of the first few Zep albums that a different amp would fix. It is very distinctly a Tele into a fuzz box tone that couldn’t really be duplicated with a master volume amp. Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes JCM 900, 800 are most fine with a couple small >secret modifications that you may request, if you want >to know. I would not buy a mesa boogie, but you might >want to have a look at bogner and eggnator amps. These >impress me as being very well made and i love the sound. >Of course marshall set the pace for all chain saw grinder >amplifiers and are very well made, but you want the >newer not the vintage one, not the plexi. >marshall power brake is good for marshall, "power soak" >i would avoid, it tends to lunch the output transformer. >you have engaged on the quest for the ultimate >rock and roll amplifier…have fun with it. > — mykey aka captain crunch

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ve been considering buying a new amp, and need some advice from the >experts here. >I have an Epi Les Paul standard, and my goal is to sound similar to my >favorite bands Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Hendrix, etc. I love the late >60s early 70s classic rock sound, and want an amp that will sound like >that. I’m not interested in modern rock, or heavy metal as my main >goal is to get the classic rock sound, but I want to be able to play a >decent clean sound as well (although this is second priority to classic >rock distortion). >I really really need a master volume (so I can get distortion at lower >volumes and not piss off the neighbours…too much) >With that being said, I want to know if the Marshall JCM-2000 DSL 50 is >appropriate for me: >1. Can I get close to that "vintage" Marshall distortion in a small >room without going deaf? >2. How does this compare to the JCM800, JCM900, 59 plexi reissue? >3. Any other amps that you would suggest for me to look at given my >situation? >Thanks for any and all advice, and please excuse my ignorance if I am >totally wrong about something. I consider myself a beginner and just >want to make an informed purchase.

My opinion: get a stage amp and get a practice amp. Last I heard, Jeff Beck mostly plays his old Fender Princeton at home. He lives in a freeking castle, most of us need an even smaller practice amp than he does. I’ve got a Marshall, several Ampegs, an old Danelectro, a modded Univox and some crazy stuff I built, but still seem to practice mostly on a Randall RG30. It’s cleanish, takes the pedals I use and build well and is instant on. Oh, and I can hear my guitar and how I’m playing it and that’s what practicing is about. You aren’t rehearsing, you’re practicing. You want a glaring spotlight on your work so you know what is and isn’t working in your playing. I say get a small, well-made whatever for practice. And for a gigging amp get what the guys you’re emulating used – classic four-hole marshall, or something akin. Anyway, another rant from the geezer. Ron

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ve been considering buying a new amp, and need some advice from the >experts here. >I have an Epi Les Paul standard, and my goal is to sound similar to my >favorite bands Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Hendrix, etc. I love the late >60s early 70s classic rock sound, and want an amp that will sound like >that. I’m not interested in modern rock, or heavy metal as my main >goal is to get the classic rock sound, but I want to be able to play a >decent clean sound as well (although this is second priority to classic >rock distortion). >I really really need a master volume (so I can get distortion at lower >volumes and not piss off the neighbours…too much) >With that being said, I want to know if the Marshall JCM-2000 DSL 50 is >appropriate for me: >1. Can I get close to that "vintage" Marshall distortion in a small >room without going deaf? >2. How does this compare to the JCM800, JCM900, 59 plexi reissue? >3. Any other amps that you would suggest for me to look at given my >situation? >Thanks for any and all advice, and please excuse my ignorance if I am >totally wrong about something. I consider myself a beginner and just >want to make an informed purchase. > My opinion: get a stage amp and get a practice amp. Last I heard, Jeff Beck > mostly plays his old Fender Princeton at home. He lives in a freeking castle, > most of us need an even smaller practice amp than he does. > I’ve got a Marshall, several Ampegs, an old Danelectro, a modded Univox and some > crazy stuff I built, but still seem to practice mostly on a Randall RG30. It’s > cleanish, takes the pedals I use and build well and is instant on. Oh, and I can > hear my guitar and how I’m playing it and that’s what practicing is about. > You aren’t rehearsing, you’re practicing. You want a glaring spotlight on your > work so you know what is and isn’t working in your playing. > I say get a small, well-made whatever for practice. And for a gigging amp get > what the guys you’re emulating used – classic four-hole marshall, or something > akin. > Anyway, another rant from the geezer. > Ron

So EnRonic, when you are practicing "playing", you must be also practicing poser facial expressions to give that look like you’re *really* getting down with those "heavy expressive" licks and those "macho" power chords, right? Yep, I knew it. Fuddy-duddies always have to pretend to be cool. For those of you who don’t know what a fuddy-duddy is: Main Entry: fud

Posted in Marshall Amp | No Comments » |

On topic posts can't hurt

Question:

Hi all, It’s me again with my MkIV project on hands and although I’ve already asked this question, I’ll ask it again cause you guys never really answered (it even seems you didn’t understant what I meant… I guess my english is not THAT good ). So here we go : On the commonly available Boogie’s Mk IV schematics, there are SPSTs (some probably pot mounted) and LDRs all over the place with indications underneath. Those indications are obviously related to the various channels this amp has (3 channels actually) but the question is how related ? Some LDR’s role are easy to understand (refer to http://www.tubefreak.com/mk4-1.gif ) such as LDR4 which is accompanied by a " (LD) " on the schematic annotation. It’s clear that this LDR is off (open, highly resistive, as you like) when you’re NOT using the Lead (LD) channel. LDR5 and 9 are similar. But when it comes to the leftmost switch annoted "RY1" with written under "(R2,L)", what am I supposed to understand there ? Has it something to do with the fact that "mid gain" should only be available in some channel(s) only ? The effect loop has some similar switches between R241 and GND. These ones are even weirder. Any idea what they’re about ? Also, when in channel R1, it seems that you’re going from the tonestack recovery tube to the next stage through a 3.3M in parallel with a 20pF cap. I’ve never seen that before, what’s the point of those components ? Thanks for any information or comment that you may provide ! PS : No power supply schematics, that’s a shame really, any idea what are A, B, C … voltages ? If not, I’ll do the same stuff as the MkIIc power section, it should work fine !

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi all, >It’s me again with my MkIV project on hands and although I’ve already asked >this question, I’ll ask it again cause you guys never really answered (it >even seems you didn’t understant what I meant… I guess my english is not >THAT good ). So here we go : >On the commonly available Boogie’s Mk IV schematics, there are SPSTs (some >probably pot mounted) and LDRs all over the place with indications >underneath. Those indications are obviously related to the various channels >this amp has (3 channels actually) but the question is how related ? >Some LDR’s role are easy to understand (refer to >http://www.tubefreak.com/mk4-1.gif ) such as LDR4 which is accompanied by a >" (LD) " on the schematic annotation. It’s clear that this LDR is off (open, >highly resistive, as you like) when you’re NOT using the Lead (LD) channel. >LDR5 and 9 are similar. >But when it comes to the leftmost switch annoted "RY1" with written under >"(R2,L)", what am I supposed to understand there ? Has it something to do >with the fact that "mid gain" should only be available in some channel(s) >only ? The effect loop has some similar switches between R241 and GND. These >ones are even weirder. Any idea what they’re about ? >Also, when in channel R1, it seems that you’re going from the tonestack >recovery tube to the next stage through a 3.3M in parallel with a 20pF cap. >I’ve never seen that before, what’s the point of those components ? >Thanks for any information or comment that you may provide ! >PS : No power supply schematics, that’s a shame really, any idea what are A, >B, C … voltages ? If not, I’ll do the same stuff as the MkIIc power >section, it should work fine !

Try this: http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=287 I’d have to print it all out to make it easier to go back and forth from the page that shows what energizes the relays/LDRs to the page(s) that have their corresponding switches. Basic switching logic. I have faith you’ll sort it out, but if you need a hand, let me know. BTW, I think your english is just fine, to say the least. ;o) -Dave

Response:

That’s how I read it – that switch closes in Lead and Rhythm 2 modes. and why not. >The effect loop has some similar switches between R241 and GND. These >ones are even weirder. Any idea what they’re about ?

They look like a mute taking signal to ground via a 4k7 resistor. >Also, when in channel R1, it seems that you’re going from the tonestack >recovery tube to the next stage through a 3.3M in parallel with a 20pF cap. >I’ve never seen that before, what’s the point of those components ?

A high pass filter and probably burning off some gain to make it all clean and sparkly. A sound Boogies are known for. >Thanks for any information or comment that you may provide ! >PS : No power supply schematics, that’s a shame really, any idea what are A, >B, C … voltages ? If not, I’ll do the same stuff as the MkIIc power >section, it should work fine !

Search some more, I’m pretty sure they’re out there.

Response:

> I’d have to print it all out to make it easier to go back and forth > from the page that shows what energizes the relays/LDRs to the page(s) > that have their corresponding switches.

All of the Mk4 schematics available online comprise preamp, lead, reverb, effect loop, EQ and power amp sections. I never found the switching matrix nor the power supply. The freeinfosociety’s and the tubefreak’s schematics are identical. > Basic switching logic. I have faith you’ll sort it out, but if you > need a hand, let me know.

Ok, thanks. The only MBoogie switching matrix I found was the Rectifier’s and the status of each LDR is given in a table, according to the channel you consider. It’s pretty straight forward. > BTW, I think your english is just fine, to say the least.

Thanks again, I actually didn’t really mean my english is bad

Response:

> That’s how I read it – that switch closes in Lead and Rhythm 2 modes. and > why > not.

I’ve taken a look at the MkIV’s manual and read there that the "mid gain" switch is only active in Lead mode. It settles the question of how and when this polcap should be bypassed or not. Counterintuitively, the second switch is probably opened when NOT in lead mode therefore rendering the one on the other side (dubbed "mid gain" just to be perfectly clear) of the polcap useless. I just can’t find a relation between the annotation and its status. > They look like a mute taking signal to ground via a 4k7 resistor.

Come to think of it, I rather think it’s some sort of tension divider that won’t mute but just lower down the voltage going to the effect loop and beyond. Here again, the annotations are hard to understand : Both LDRs will have the same effect, what’s the use of putting 2 that will produce the same result ? RY1 with (RY2,lead) written under, what’s that supposed to mean in your opinion ? I’m concerned that these components might be important to have an even volume in each channel or to avoid saturating the FX loop… > A high pass filter and probably burning off some gain to make it all clean > and > sparkly. A sound Boogies are known for.

Yeah, probably but I found the values really extreme, you can’t really get more resistive than 3.3M and less cap than 20pF. > Search some more, I’m pretty sure they’re out there.

I’ve searched for a long time but never could lay my hand on them. I’m not sure they’re available online though some official repairmen probably have a full paper version.

Response:

Posted in Power Amp | No Comments » |

Mod or no mod for old JMP?????

Question:

I recently purchased a 1976 Marshall JMP 50 Watt Non-master volume head. (1987) Right now I can’t remember which input or channel it is, but one of them is making a nasty noise and I’m hoping it’s just a tube problem. That’s not what my questions are about as I’m sure a good tech can figure that part out. I would like some opinions on possible ways to go with this head though. Since I can’t really give it a good workout in it’s present condition for fear of hurting something, I need to draw off of others experience with these heads. I’m looking for that famous chainsaw grinding brown kick your ass Marshall experience. Obviously, this head would have to be opened up practically all the way it seems, but even then it probably wouldn’t get where I am dreaming of. So what’s the scoop? Power brakes, hotplates and the like, or pedal mania, or go for the big custom Mod???? Now…..don’t freak out because I’m possibly willing to mod a classic vintage original. I didn’t buy for its collectors value. I bought it to play!!!! So help me out here. Preamp drive or Power tube drive? Mods? Pedals?? Attenuators??? Celestion Vintage 30’s, Greenback 25’s, etc., etc. I know that any one of you isn’t going to have all the answers. I’m just wanting as much feedback as possible on all the age old debates. Thanks everybody. Jim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I recently purchased a 1976 Marshall JMP 50 Watt Non-master volume > head. (1987) Right now I can’t remember which input or channel it is, > but one of them is making a nasty noise and I’m hoping it’s just a tube > problem. That’s not what my questions are about as I’m sure a good > tech can figure that part out. I would like some opinions on possible > ways to go with this head though. Since I can’t really give it a good > workout in it’s present condition for fear of hurting something, I need > to draw off of others experience with these heads. I’m looking for > that famous chainsaw grinding brown kick your ass Marshall experience. > Obviously, this head would have to be opened up practically all the way > it seems, but even then it probably wouldn’t get where I am dreaming > of. So what’s the scoop? Power brakes, hotplates and the like, or > pedal mania, or go for the big custom Mod???? Now…..don’t freak out > because I’m possibly willing to mod a classic vintage original. I > didn’t buy for its collectors value. I bought it to play!!!! So help > me out here. Preamp drive or Power tube drive? Mods? Pedals?? > Attenuators??? Celestion Vintage 30’s, Greenback 25’s, etc., etc. I > know that any one of you isn’t going to have all the answers. I’m just > wanting as much feedback as possible on all the age old debates. > Thanks everybody. > Jim

I know you bought it to play it rather than as a collector’s piece but I still wouldn’t mod it. If you are looking for big grind at lower volume, you should really consider a second or another amp. That Marshall is designed to be cranked up and that’s about all there is to it. If a second amp isn’t an option, consider some sort of pedal in front of it whether it be a clean boost, an overdrive or all-out distortion. Personally, I’d look into an old ProCo Rat if big, 80’s style crunch is what you’re after.

Response:

> > I recently purchased a 1976 Marshall JMP 50 Watt Non-master volume > head. > …consider some sort of pedal in front > of it whether it be a clean boost, an overdrive or all-out distortion. > Personally, I’d look into an old ProCo Rat if big, 80’s style crunch is > what you’re after.

Nix the clean boost idea; that isn’t going to cut it without a master volume.

Response:

You bought the wrong Marshall. Sell it to somebody that wants an unmolested 1987 and buy yourself a 2204 or whatever you need.

Response:

I’ve got to second (or third) all the opinions just put forth, besides being a classic a non-master volume Marshall is worth good money you could sell it for a newer master-volume model in great shape and pocket the difference. And this is coming from a guy who will modify damn near anything (really). Sean

Response:

Like everyone says. Dump it for a master volume model. WARNING!!! If you modify it you will lower it’s value. — The Pentatonic Scale Explained http://bluechainlightning.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I recently purchased a 1976 Marshall JMP 50 Watt Non-master volume > head. (1987) Right now I can’t remember which input or channel it is, > but one of them is making a nasty noise and I’m hoping it’s just a tube > problem. That’s not what my questions are about as I’m sure a good > tech can figure that part out. I would like some opinions on possible > ways to go with this head though. Since I can’t really give it a good > workout in it’s present condition for fear of hurting something, I need > to draw off of others experience with these heads. I’m looking for > that famous chainsaw grinding brown kick your ass Marshall experience. > Obviously, this head would have to be opened up practically all the way > it seems, but even then it probably wouldn’t get where I am dreaming > of. So what’s the scoop? Power brakes, hotplates and the like, or > pedal mania, or go for the big custom Mod???? Now…..don’t freak out > because I’m possibly willing to mod a classic vintage original. I > didn’t buy for its collectors value. I bought it to play!!!! So help > me out here. Preamp drive or Power tube drive? Mods? Pedals?? > Attenuators??? Celestion Vintage 30’s, Greenback 25’s, etc., etc. I > know that any one of you isn’t going to have all the answers. I’m just > wanting as much feedback as possible on all the age old debates. > Thanks everybody. > Jim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I recently purchased a 1976 Marshall JMP 50 Watt Non-master volume >head. (1987) Right now I can’t remember which input or channel it is, >but one of them is making a nasty noise and I’m hoping it’s just a tube >problem. That’s not what my questions are about as I’m sure a good >tech can figure that part out. I would like some opinions on possible >ways to go with this head though. Since I can’t really give it a good >workout in it’s present condition for fear of hurting something, I need >to draw off of others experience with these heads. I’m looking for >that famous chainsaw grinding brown kick your ass Marshall experience. >Obviously, this head would have to be opened up practically all the way >it seems, but even then it probably wouldn’t get where I am dreaming >of. So what’s the scoop? Power brakes, hotplates and the like, or >pedal mania, or go for the big custom Mod???? Now…..don’t freak out >because I’m possibly willing to mod a classic vintage original. I >didn’t buy for its collectors value. I bought it to play!!!! So help >me out here. Preamp drive or Power tube drive? Mods? Pedals?? >Attenuators??? Celestion Vintage 30’s, Greenback 25’s, etc., etc. I >know that any one of you isn’t going to have all the answers. I’m just >wanting as much feedback as possible on all the age old debates. >Thanks everybody. >Jim

Here’s one opinion – or rather a few opinions – and yes I do have all the answers – so does the other guy who disagrees with my answers. Do consider that some of the answers have to be taken as a package. Here’s on package of amp answer: Mods need to be simple and subtle otherwise it isnt a mod it’s a lazy build. Too often you will lose the original qualities of the amp and gain nothing over having an amp built to spec. If you must have a master volume it should be a post-PI type and mounted in an existing hole. I don’t think you need it. But that’s cool, try this noninvasive plan and if you don’t like it you can go with the MV. Here’s what I think will get you what you want: Get the amp serviced, these things sound much better when they’re running right than merely "not broke." Fresh tubes and caps. Don’t be an idjit and tell the tech to bias it super hot for that super hot tone. Hifi amps are biased hot, good sounding Marshalls are not. The one mod you should consider is adding a bypass cap on the cathode of the second gain stage after the volume control. Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or the more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes on 3 and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is lively and wanting to feedback and controls and cleans up beautifully from your guitar. It’ll be too loud for the living room, but it’ll be cheaper and better to get another amp for in there and keep your Marshall for the real work. You’ll have great flexibility depending on how you balance the two volume controls the tone controls on the amp and your guitar’s controls. Now get yourself any one or more of the following three pedals. A classic fuzz face type pedal. A real one with germanium transistors that responds to the volume control and sounds like early Zep if you play a tele, or Cream with a Gibson, or Jimi with a Strat. Got the idea, these are incredibly flexible pedals that help you get your sound, not some prepackaged thing. (shameless plug – I build a nice one that’s reasonably priced since I don’t have sexy graphics on it, yet) A Crowther Hot Cake, these work for Marshalls the way a TS-9 does for Fenders. Great push and drive that seems to add to the amp rather than contribute it’s own distortion. That is "seems." This is not a clean boost, just a dirty boost that meshes beautifully with a Marshall. A good 80’s spec Rat. Ripping, snarling lead and aggressive rhythm sounds. A big part of Jeff Beck’s sound for years. Great pedal. The "80s spec" recommendation is part of it. The later ones aren’t that bad, but they aren’t quite brilliant either and we aren’t going to all this trouble for anything less. One of those will suit you and your amp and your music. You want to mate the amp with a good cab. the Marshall 1936 2×12, the 4×12, and if you can find one and the room to transport it (I wish I still had mine) a Marshall 8×10. Speaker choice often comes down to logistics. Whatever you do, get decent drivers. I really like the G12-65 Celestions. I don’t like to hear speakers break up. Just not part of my sound. Playing notes, use the knobs on your guitar, whatever it is. You want the amp to be cranked and bright and just ragged as hell and then use the volume and tone controls on the guitar to tame it. First get that amp tuned and running right, then start with the rest of the tone quest. Ron

Response:

you can change it to a master volume model which basically adds one more preamp stage to make it grind, but please follow the factory schematic if you do this. Dont turn it over to some butcher to put a genius "homemade" modification in it. when I do this I take one of the speaker jacks out and put the master volume in the back. this is fairly easy and can be changed back later. dont drill any holes in it. however please understand that the mods make it un collectible and perhaps (if it really is in good original condition) you should sell it that way to a collector. take the $2000 you get and buy another amp that is playable to your liking. I recommend the all tube master models, not the later ones with solid state parts and footswitches, etc…the all tube ones sound much better and are more reliable. the noise you are hearing i suspect could be the first preamp tube or a bad resistor, which is of course easy to repair. but take it to a real service center, not some fly by night repair shop. expect to pay $200-300.00 to have it changed over, assuming some or all of the tubes will be replaced. and on the subject of inexcusable pathetic piece of shit "fuzzboxes"… there is no "booster pedal" that will make a marshall sound this way, the only way to get that sound is from a real marshall circuit, with tubes. get real, accept no substitutes.

Response:

> Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or > the > more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes > on 3 > and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is

BZZZZTTTT. Dump this BS advice immediately. No one gets a Marshall for it’s clean tone qualities. WTF!!!! — The Pentatonic Scale Explained http://bluechainlightning.net

Response:

> I recently purchased a 1976 Marshall JMP 50 Watt Non-master volume > head. (1987) Right now I can’t remember which input or channel it is, > but one of them is making a nasty noise and I’m hoping it’s just a tube > problem. That’s not what my questions are about as I’m sure a good > tech can figure that part out.

Very cool so far. > I would like some opinions on possible > ways to go with this head though. Since I can’t really give it a good > workout in it’s present condition for fear of hurting something,

What’s to hurt. You has sensitive ears, or have a cat in the house. Throw out the cat. > I need > to draw off of others experience with these heads.

OK, I’m listening. > I’m looking for > that famous chainsaw grinding brown kick your ass Marshall experience.

Yes, I have three 100+ watt Marshall stacks, and have had them all on 10 many times. > Obviously, this head would have to be opened up practically all the way > it seems, but even then it probably wouldn’t get where I am dreaming > of. So what’s the scoop?

> Power brakes, hotplates and the like, or

You are kidding. > pedal mania, or go for the big custom Mod????

Oh Boy. Here, we go. > Now…..don’t freak out > because I’m possibly willing to mod a classic vintage original. I > didn’t buy for its collectors value.

> I bought it to play!!!!

I hope so. > So help me out here.

Can you take it, if I give ya the deal. Or, are you ALREADY hell bent on screwing with that amp, BEFORE you know about it pedigree. > Preamp drive or Power tube drive?

> Mods?

Well,….. may I introduce you to the results of extreme mod fever… in the name of the, *I bought it to play* banner. Yeah, you could end up here. http://timeelect.com/hackmarshall.htm > Pedals??

Cool!!!!!!! > Attenuators???

Read what I say in number 40. http://aga.rru.com/FAQs/general.html > Celestion Vintage 30’s, Greenback 25’s, etc., etc. I > know that any one of you isn’t going to have all the answers.

You’re right. But, I sure wrote the book on a few the really right ones. > I’m just > wanting as much feedback as possible on all the age old debates. > Thanks everybody. > Jim

Know the pedigree of that JMP Marshall amp line. http://timeelect.com/images/JimiNYE69.jpg Or,… would this amp be better for > that famous chainsaw grinding brown kick your ass Marshall experience.

But, what you may really have in mind, is that low volume *roaring* mouse sound, from an amp with all these bells and whistles. http://timeelect.com/hk-triamp-22.jpg That breed of amp, may be a better thing for ya. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

>Well,….. may I introduce you to the results of extreme mod fever… >in the name of the, *I bought it to play* banner. >Yeah, you could end up here. >http://timeelect.com/hackmarshall.htm

I gotta tell yah. Seeing pictures of that hacked up amp used to just offend me. But I’ve seen it enough times that every time I get to this picture: http://timeelect.com/hack-1.jpg I start laughing instantly. Sorry. It’s just funny on too many different levels. Pete

Response:

> a Marshall for it’s clean tone qualities.

Ack ack ack ack

Response:

>> Mods? >Well,….. may I introduce you to the results of extreme mod fever… >in the name of the, *I bought it to play* banner. >Yeah, you could end up here. >http://timeelect.com/hackmarshall.htm

That was one sick fuck who thought all that epoxy was needed.. WHAT ‘ideas’ did he have to hide? Bet he was proud of himself.. …or milked some sucker for a large car payment.. JJTj

Response:

>> Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or > the > more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes > on 3 > and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is >BZZZZTTTT. Dump this BS advice immediately. No one gets a Marshall >for it’s clean tone qualities. >WTF!!!!

I know, Frusciante, Page, Knopfler and those guys like that just don’t know how to make a Marshall RAWK. Ron

Response:

Alive, well and dumb enougbh to show up for my fair share of abuse. Glad to see you still here preaching it to those who’ll listen. Ron

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Here’s one opinion – or rather a few opinions – and yes I do have all the > answers – so does the other guy who disagrees with my answers. Do consider that > some of the answers have to be taken as a package. Here’s on package of amp > answer: > Mods need to be simple and subtle otherwise it isnt a mod it’s a lazy build. Too > often you will lose the original qualities of the amp and gain nothing over > having an amp built to spec. > If you must have a master volume it should be a post-PI type and mounted in an > existing hole. I don’t think you need it. But that’s cool, try this noninvasive > plan and if you don’t like it you can go with the MV. > Here’s what I think will get you what you want: > Get the amp serviced, these things sound much better when they’re running right > than merely "not broke." Fresh tubes and caps. Don’t be an idjit and tell the > tech to bias it super hot for that super hot tone. Hifi amps are biased hot, > good sounding Marshalls are not. The one mod you should consider is adding a > bypass cap on the cathode of the second gain stage after the volume control. > Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or the > more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes on 3 > and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is > lively and wanting to feedback and controls and cleans up beautifully from your > guitar. It’ll be too loud for the living room, but it’ll be cheaper and better > to get another amp for in there and keep your Marshall for the real work. You’ll > have great flexibility depending on how you balance the two volume controls the > tone controls on the amp and your guitar’s controls. > Now get yourself any one or more of the following three pedals. > A classic fuzz face type pedal. A real one with germanium transistors that > responds to the volume control and sounds like early Zep if you play a tele, or > Cream with a Gibson, or Jimi with a Strat. Got the idea, these are incredibly > flexible pedals that help you get your sound, not some prepackaged thing. > (shameless plug – I build a nice one that’s reasonably priced since I don’t have > sexy graphics on it, yet) > A Crowther Hot Cake, these work for Marshalls the way a TS-9 does for Fenders. > Great push and drive that seems to add to the amp rather than contribute it’s > own distortion. That is "seems." This is not a clean boost, just a dirty boost > that meshes beautifully with a Marshall. > A good 80’s spec Rat. Ripping, snarling lead and aggressive rhythm sounds. A big > part of Jeff Beck’s sound for years. Great pedal. The "80s spec" recommendation > is part of it. The later ones aren’t that bad, but they aren’t quite brilliant > either and we aren’t going to all this trouble for anything less. > One of those will suit you and your amp and your music. > You want to mate the amp with a good cab. the Marshall 1936 2×12, the 4×12, and > if you can find one and the room to transport it (I wish I still had mine) a > Marshall 8×10. Speaker choice often comes down to logistics. Whatever you do, > get decent drivers. I really like the G12-65 Celestions. I don’t like to hear > speakers break up. Just not part of my sound. > Playing notes, use the knobs on your guitar, whatever it is. You want the amp to > be cranked and bright and just ragged as hell and then use the volume and tone > controls on the guitar to tame it. > First get that amp tuned and running right, then start with the rest of the tone > quest. > Ron

Wow, What an refreshingly sane post! Ron, I had forgotten how much I enjoy reading your *opinions*. Spot on, as usual. Gary Gerhart Gerhart Amplification

Response:

>> Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or > the > more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes > on 3 > and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is > BZZZZTTTT. Dump this BS advice immediately. No one gets a Marshall > for it’s clean tone qualities. > WTF!!!!

WTF, indeed. A *properly* setup OLD Marshall can have some of the sweetest cleans imaginable. I’ll take it over a BF Fender any day… Gary Gerhart Gerhart Amplification

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s one opinion – or rather a few opinions – and yes I do have all the > answers – so does the other guy who disagrees with my answers. Do consider that > some of the answers have to be taken as a package. Here’s on package of amp > answer: > Mods need to be simple and subtle otherwise it isnt a mod it’s a lazy build. Too > often you will lose the original qualities of the amp and gain nothing over > having an amp built to spec. > If you must have a master volume it should be a post-PI type and mounted in an > existing hole. I don’t think you need it. But that’s cool, try this noninvasive > plan and if you don’t like it you can go with the MV. > Here’s what I think will get you what you want: > Get the amp serviced, these things sound much better when they’re running right > than merely "not broke." Fresh tubes and caps. Don’t be an idjit and tell the > tech to bias it super hot for that super hot tone. Hifi amps are biased hot, > good sounding Marshalls are not. The one mod you should consider is adding a > bypass cap on the cathode of the second gain stage after the volume control. > Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or the > more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes on 3 > and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is > lively and wanting to feedback and controls and cleans up beautifully from your > guitar. It’ll be too loud for the living room, but it’ll be cheaper and better > to get another amp for in there and keep your Marshall for the real work. You’ll > have great flexibility depending on how you balance the two volume controls the > tone controls on the amp and your guitar’s controls. > Now get yourself any one or more of the following three pedals. > A classic fuzz face type pedal. A real one with germanium transistors that > responds to the volume control and sounds like early Zep if you play a tele, or > Cream with a Gibson, or Jimi with a Strat. Got the idea, these are incredibly > flexible pedals that help you get your sound, not some prepackaged thing. > (shameless plug – I build a nice one that’s reasonably priced since I don’t have > sexy graphics on it, yet) > A Crowther Hot Cake, these work for Marshalls the way a TS-9 does for Fenders. > Great push and drive that seems to add to the amp rather than contribute it’s > own distortion. That is "seems." This is not a clean boost, just a dirty boost > that meshes beautifully with a Marshall. > A good 80’s spec Rat. Ripping, snarling lead and aggressive rhythm sounds. A big > part of Jeff Beck’s sound for years. Great pedal. The "80s spec" recommendation > is part of it. The later ones aren’t that bad, but they aren’t quite brilliant > either and we aren’t going to all this trouble for anything less. > One of those will suit you and your amp and your music. > You want to mate the amp with a good cab. the Marshall 1936 2×12, the 4×12, and > if you can find one and the room to transport it (I wish I still had mine) a > Marshall 8×10. Speaker choice often comes down to logistics. Whatever you do, > get decent drivers. I really like the G12-65 Celestions. I don’t like to hear > speakers break up. Just not part of my sound. > Playing notes, use the knobs on your guitar, whatever it is. You want the amp to > be cranked and bright and just ragged as hell and then use the volume and tone > controls on the guitar to tame it. > First get that amp tuned and running right, then start with the rest of the tone > quest. > Ron >Wow, >What an refreshingly sane post! >Ron, I had forgotten how much I enjoy reading your *opinions*. >Spot on, as usual. >Gary Gerhart >Gerhart Amplification

Thanks Gary. Good to see you here. You were sorta MIA about the time I left. Hope all is well for you and the amps are cranking out. I know you had some sweet ones going. Ron

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I recently purchased a 1976 Marshall JMP 50 Watt Non-master volume >head. (1987) Right now I can’t remember which input or channel it is, >but one of them is making a nasty noise and I’m hoping it’s just a tube >problem. That’s not what my questions are about as I’m sure a good >tech can figure that part out. I would like some opinions on possible >ways to go with this head though. Since I can’t really give it a good >workout in it’s present condition for fear of hurting something, I need >to draw off of others experience with these heads. I’m looking for >that famous chainsaw grinding brown kick your ass Marshall experience. >Obviously, this head would have to be opened up practically all the way >it seems, but even then it probably wouldn’t get where I am dreaming >of. So what’s the scoop? Power brakes, hotplates and the like, or >pedal mania, or go for the big custom Mod???? Now…..don’t freak out >because I’m possibly willing to mod a classic vintage original. I >didn’t buy for its collectors value. I bought it to play!!!! So help >me out here. Preamp drive or Power tube drive? Mods? Pedals?? >Attenuators??? Celestion Vintage 30’s, Greenback 25’s, etc., etc. I >know that any one of you isn’t going to have all the answers. I’m just >wanting as much feedback as possible on all the age old debates. >Thanks everybody. >Jim > Here’s one opinion – or rather a few opinions – and yes I do have all the > answers – so does the other guy who disagrees with my answers. Do consider that > some of the answers have to be taken as a package. Here’s on package of amp > answer: > Mods need to be simple and subtle otherwise it isnt a mod it’s a lazy build. Too > often you will lose the original qualities of the amp and gain nothing over > having an amp built to spec. > If you must have a master volume it should be a post-PI type and mounted in an > existing hole. I don’t think you need it. But that’s cool, try this noninvasive > plan and if you don’t like it you can go with the MV. > Here’s what I think will get you what you want: > Get the amp serviced, these things sound much better when they’re running right > than merely "not broke." Fresh tubes and caps. Don’t be an idjit and tell the > tech to bias it super hot for that super hot tone. Hifi amps are biased hot, > good sounding Marshalls are not. The one mod you should consider is adding a > bypass cap on the cathode of the second gain stage after the volume control. > Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or the > more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes on 3 > and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is > lively and wanting to feedback and controls and cleans up beautifully from your > guitar. It’ll be too loud for the living room, but it’ll be cheaper and better > to get another amp for in there and keep your Marshall for the real work. You’ll > have great flexibility depending on how you balance the two volume controls the > tone controls on the amp and your guitar’s controls. > Now get yourself any one or more of the following three pedals. > A classic fuzz face type pedal. A real one with germanium transistors that > responds to the volume control and sounds like early Zep if you play a tele, or > Cream with a Gibson, or Jimi with a Strat. Got the idea, these are incredibly > flexible pedals that help you get your sound, not some prepackaged thing. > (shameless plug – I build a nice one that’s reasonably priced since I don’t have > sexy graphics on it, yet) > A Crowther Hot Cake, these work for Marshalls the way a TS-9 does for Fenders. > Great push and drive that seems to add to the amp rather than contribute it’s > own distortion. That is "seems." This is not a clean boost, just a dirty boost > that meshes beautifully with a Marshall. > A good 80’s spec Rat. Ripping, snarling lead and aggressive rhythm sounds. A big > part of Jeff Beck’s sound for years. Great pedal. The "80s spec" recommendation > is part of it. The later ones aren’t that bad, but they aren’t quite brilliant > either and we aren’t going to all this trouble for anything less. > One of those will suit you and your amp and your music. > You want to mate the amp with a good cab. the Marshall 1936 2×12, the 4×12, and > if you can find one and the room to transport it (I wish I still had mine) a > Marshall 8×10. Speaker choice often comes down to logistics. Whatever you do, > get decent drivers. I really like the G12-65 Celestions. I don’t like to hear > speakers break up. Just not part of my sound. > Playing notes, use the knobs on your guitar, whatever it is. You want the amp to > be cranked and bright and just ragged as hell and then use the volume and tone > controls on the guitar to tame it. > First get that amp tuned and running right, then start with the rest of the tone > quest. > Ron

Excellent post even if by a neonazicon.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Mods? >Well,….. may I introduce you to the results of extreme mod fever… >in the name of the, *I bought it to play* banner. >Yeah, you could end up here. >http://timeelect.com/hackmarshall.htm >That was one sick fuck who thought all that epoxy was needed.. >WHAT ‘ideas’ did he have to hide? Bet he was proud of himself.. >…or milked some sucker for a large car payment.. >JJTj

That’s someone you may have heard of; "Voodoo" doo-doo or something like that… Black Mojo goo to cover the "Trace" ;o) -Dave

Response:

[snip fer brevity, not context removal] > First get that amp tuned and running right, then start with the rest of the tone > quest. > Ron > Excellent post even if by a neonazicon.

This is what baffles me. How in the world can someone be smart enough to know electronics, cool enough to be a musical artist, and yet be gullible enough to ingest the perverse Anti-American right wing fascist ideology without question? It just doesn’t make sense! Could it be conditioning in the military or some other strange form of upbringing of being told what to think all of the time, and consequently only believing in things that confirm or reinforce the resulting preconditioned mentality of a constantly promoted conservatism? How can someone be so narrow-minded, yet have the capacity to understand electronics or become a capable troubleshooter? After all, a narrow mind refuses to see all of the possiblities, including the possibility that oneself can be also wrong. How can a tech be effective without the ability of being skeptical? How can anyone of any intelligence not consider all of the possibilities? How can someone who is a conservative become a musician unless all of the music they play expresses death, destruction, marching and is devoid of imagination, love, goodwill and civility? How can one with a suppressed imagination be able to perform music in the first place, unless it’s basically all mechanical and without emotion? Perhaps they confuse love with lust and their playing of "love" songs are really in essence just lust songs which any animal can do in the form of mating calls. I just don’t get it. It just does not compute. Perhaps OPPOSITE WORLD is closing in on me.

Response:

>That’s someone you may have heard of; "Voodoo" doo-doo or something >like that… Black Mojo goo to cover the "Trace"

"Blue-Voo-doo" Crate came in. HP, JB, JA, and me turn it on. LIGHTS in the back, against a silver back plate, to convince you it WAS a tube that created the crapy sound you are listening to. JB, being the best player, pluged his pink guitar into it, and no way could we get any sane sound out of it. NOTHING. After he was done, we all, on cue laughed out loud for about 5 mins. SOMEONE said <won’t name who> "..this DOES suck for the money.." Yesterday, I walked into a GC and saw what SLM is selling as a ‘Crate’ 8-12" stack. Guy is playing thru it, and I am walking behind it, listening to him (+decent player) as I laugh out loud. Worthless hunk of dog shit. Might as well be a B52..or worse.. …a Behringer..GAD what un-repair able puke… Sounds it too. JJTj

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Plug your guitar in, jumpering the two channels. Either use a Y cable or >> the >> more traditional jumper from one channel to the other. With both volumes >> on 3 >> and up you should find yourself with a great ripping cleanish tone that is > BZZZZTTTT. Dump this BS advice immediately. No one gets a Marshall > for it’s clean tone qualities. > WTF!!!! > WTF, indeed. > A *properly* setup OLD Marshall can have some of the sweetest > cleans imaginable. I’ll take it over a BF Fender any day… > Gary Gerhart > Gerhart Amplification

your both right, a Marshall can be clean or it can grind, thats what made it one of the best choices. clarification…the newer master volume model was basically the same old amp with the first preamp stage rewired. this created one more preamp stage; hence grinding like a chainsaw. the old amp gets the grind from the power amp, the new amp grinds from the pre, power or both. thats why i like to play thru the new one. i can grind without the hearing loss.

Response:

> A *properly* setup OLD Marshall can have some of the sweetest > cleans imaginable. I’ll take it over a BF Fender any day…

I do believe the original Marshalls were clones of Fenders so yes I would expect them to be clean. — The Pentatonic Scale Explained http://bluechainlightning.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Gary Gerhart > Gerhart Amplification

Response:

Posted in Marshall Amp | No Comments » |

Old Evans Amp

Question:

I picked up an old Evans amp (from the 60s, I think) on Ebay some time ago. It’s a hybrid with a tube preamp & solid state power amp. I had just been using it at home, but I tried it on a gig with a rhythm section the other night and it’s great. It’s quiet and clean with buku headroom. A great jazz amp when you need to be loud and clean. I don’t really know the history of this amp, so I’m wondering if I should get it checked out by an amp tech before using it out again. Or does the fact that it’s quiet and clean and well-behaved mean there’s nothing to worry about? I’d hate to do some damage to it by pushing it. What do the amp techs say?

Response:

> I don’t really know the history of this amp, so I’m wondering if I > should get it checked out by an amp tech before using it out again. Or > does the fact that it’s quiet and clean and well-behaved mean there’s > nothing to worry about? I’d hate to do some damage to it by pushing it. > What do the amp techs say?

head ? Cab ? Wattage ? post a picture … we have no idea what shape it is. Some maintenance won’t hurt .. may not help either and your throwing money away.

Response:

> head ? Cab ? Wattage ? post a picture … we have no idea what shape it > is. > Some maintenance won’t hurt .. may not help either and your throwing > money away.

Thanks for the response. It’s an old combo amp with a 15-inch speaker. I think it’s 300 watts… unbelievably loud and nothing but clean. It’s got a two-way toggle switch that says country/jazz (what else do you need?). I called Evans and the guy thought it was one of Jim’s early prototypes. It’s got writing in electric pen on the back of the chassis. Five preamp tubes and a big-ass transformer. Two big Mallory tin can looking things hanging from the chassis (what the hell are those?) that say 6000 MFD 55 VDC. I took off the back panel and checked it since my original post and the transformer was hanging my two bolts, so I’m securing it. Maybe that’s the amp telling me to get it checked out.

Response:

> Five preamp tubes and a big-ass transformer. Two big Mallory > tin can looking things hanging from the chassis (what the hell are > those?) that say 6000 MFD 55 VDC.

Thats what I call filter caps … not much ripple left over with those suckers. Replace those with some oil filled caps and your be set for life.

Response:

> > Five preamp tubes and a big-ass transformer. Two big Mallory > tin can looking things hanging from the chassis (what the hell are > those?) that say 6000 MFD 55 VDC. > Thats what I call filter caps … not much ripple left over with > those suckers. > Replace those with some oil filled caps and your be set for life.

So I gather you think they’re probably leaking by now. It sounds like I need to have this thing checked out. Can you even get those filter caps anymore?

Response:

>>Five preamp tubes and a big-ass transformer. Two big Mallory >tin can looking things hanging from the chassis (what the hell are >those?) that say 6000 MFD 55 VDC. > Thats what I call filter caps … not much ripple left over with > those suckers. > Replace those with some oil filled caps and your be set for life.

Hmmm, Oil filled? Such as? Tony

Response:

Evans was just a product attached, IMMSMW, to the Evans Steel Guitar company, not a bad product, well loved by them dere C/W good ‘old boys.. >Hmmm, >Oil filled? Such as?

I will be releasing an ‘OIL BASED’ effect device before you can say "..everyone will want one.." ..and you will.. I promise ya.. Till then, I must be quiet..but mark (X) this day.. JJTj …It is history in the making… ……and it’s in the Key of ‘ A ‘.. …what more could any civilized man want…

Response:

oil filled caps and your be set for life. > Hmmm, > Oil filled? Such as? > Tony

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-GE-50-UF-600V-OIL-CAPACITOR-HAM-RADIO-TUBE-AU…

Response:

> I picked up an old Evans amp (from the 60s, I think)

Are they old ? http://www.evansamps.com/images/se0202-500×500.jpg Never heard of them … but country pickers are a breed of there own.

Response:

> > I picked up an old Evans amp (from the 60s, I think) > Are they old ? > http://www.evansamps.com/images/se0202-500×500.jpg > Never heard of them … but country pickers are a breed of there own.

This is definitely an old amp. Looks nothing like the current models. Again, the folks at Evans said it’s probably from the 60s. Not knowing its history, I’m assuming the caps are original. However, it does have a three-prong plug, so somebody did at least that much to it at some point. And country pickers definitely are a breed of their own, but these are very popular with jazz archtop players too. It’s a high quality solid state amp that’s pristine clean. The country guys use it mainly for steel guitar, I think.

Response:

Posted in Power Amp | No Comments » |

Fender Blues DEville?

Question:

Guy in my band is thinking of getting a Blues Deville. He’s into the 4×10 setup and likes that it has plenty of pwer. You can tell by my sig what kind of music we do. He might buy new but is interested in ebay offers. They mostly have the orig (which can be 2×12 or 4×10, he’d only go for the latter). The sellers imply the original is American made as opposed to in Mexico like the current ones. He woudl probalby save $300 going used. Some reviews in Harmony Central flat out state the orig is better. My concern is the amp doesnt seem like a workhorse and being used might make it worse. Any ideas here? Also would appreciate any comments on this amp. Thanks!

Response:

> Guy in my band is thinking of getting a Blues Deville. He’s into the > 4×10 setup and likes that it has plenty of pwer. You can tell by my sig > what kind of music we do. > He might buy new but is interested in ebay offers. They mostly have the > orig (which can be 2×12 or 4×10, he’d only go for the latter). The > sellers imply the original is American made as opposed to in Mexico > like the current ones. He woudl probalby save $300 going used. > Some reviews in Harmony Central flat out state the orig is better. My > concern is the amp doesnt seem like a workhorse and being used might > make it worse. Any ideas here? > Also would appreciate any comments on this amp. > Thanks!

Hi, I owned a Blues Deville 410 built in ‘93. It was a fantastic amp with three annoying features. Two that could be sorted and one that couldn’t. The input jack sockets are PCB mounted and flimsy. I replaced mine with ‘cliff’ jacks and flying leads. Cured. The amp goes from quiet to deafening from 1 1/2 – 3 on the master. An examination of the schematic shows why. For some reason, Fender selected a 100K *linear* pot for MV duties. I put a 1 meg Audio taper pot into a little box and plugged it into the preamp out/power amp in sockets. This made the amp much more controllable and singer friendly. The third thing that finally made me sell the amp for the sake of my back was the weight. The BD 410 weighs a ton! If you don’t mind the weight, I would say that the Fender Blues Deville 410 is a great workhorse amp, providing you are mindful of its shortcomings. The clean tones are pure Fender. The ‘drive’ tone is redolent of a Bassman (Upon which this amp is based, iirc), and with a Tube Screamer in front of it, I was able to get convincing SRV/Jimi tones with ease. Damn, wish I hadn’t sold it now HTH, Trev

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Guy in my band is thinking of getting a Blues Deville. He’s into the > 4×10 setup and likes that it has plenty of pwer. You can tell by my sig > what kind of music we do. > He might buy new but is interested in ebay offers. They mostly have the > orig (which can be 2×12 or 4×10, he’d only go for the latter). The > sellers imply the original is American made as opposed to in Mexico > like the current ones. He woudl probalby save $300 going used. > Some reviews in Harmony Central flat out state the orig is better. My > concern is the amp doesnt seem like a workhorse and being used might > make it worse. Any ideas here? > Also would appreciate any comments on this amp. > Thanks! > Hi, > I owned a Blues Deville 410 built in ‘93. It was a fantastic amp with three > annoying features. Two that could be sorted and one that couldn’t. > The input jack sockets are PCB mounted and flimsy. I replaced mine with > ‘cliff’ jacks and flying leads. Cured. > The amp goes from quiet to deafening from 1 1/2 – 3 on the master. An > examination of the schematic shows why. For some reason, Fender selected a > 100K *linear* pot for MV duties. > I put a 1 meg Audio taper pot into a little box and plugged it into the > preamp out/power amp in sockets. This made the amp much more controllable > and singer friendly. > The third thing that finally made me sell the amp for the sake of my back > was the weight. The BD 410 weighs a ton! > If you don’t mind the weight, I would say that the Fender Blues Deville 410 > is a great workhorse amp, providing you are mindful of its shortcomings. > The clean tones are pure Fender. The ‘drive’ tone is redolent of a Bassman > (Upon which this amp is based, iirc), and with a Tube Screamer in front of > it, I was able to get convincing SRV/Jimi tones with ease. > Damn, wish I hadn’t sold it now > HTH, > Trev

Thanks. It’s not for me (that’s what they all say), the lead guitaristt is apparently getting one. The volume is drawback for me and the main selling point for him. He drives a two-seater, by the way.

Response:

>>> Guy in my band is into the 4×10 setup and likes that it has plenty of pwer.

Answer: ‘59 Bassan Reissue, N.O.S. tubed.

Response:

>>>> Guy in my band is into the 4×10 setup…and likes that it has plenty >>> of pwer.

Answer: ‘59 Tweed Bassman Reissue, N.O.S. tubed. http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2171000010

Response:

My friend liked my amp; he played neck pickup LP with tone rolled down, jazz licks, and he liked the amp a lot. For that, and Country twang, I suppose it’s a good amp, but using bridge pickups and such I think they are too bright and glassy, and if you try to tone ‘em down the overdrive becomes really mushy and crappy. Here’s a song that I played (the lead riffs at the start and the clean guitars in verse, overdrives in choruses) with the DeVille using an LP STD. The other OD guitar (chording at the very beginning, the solo etc.) is HotRod DeVille with a PRS. Both are pretty glassy-bright, but that was the only decent rock sound I got from them. http://www.kuas.net/kesaloma.mp3 Cheers, Dee

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My friend liked my amp; he played neck pickup LP with tone rolled down, jazz > licks, and he liked the amp a lot. > For that, and Country twang, I suppose it’s a good amp, but using bridge > pickups and such I think they are too bright and glassy, and if you try to > tone ‘em down the overdrive becomes really mushy and crappy. > Here’s a song that I played (the lead riffs at the start and the clean > guitars in verse, overdrives in choruses) with the DeVille using an LP STD. > The other OD guitar (chording at the very beginning, the solo etc.) is > HotRod DeVille with a PRS. > Both are pretty glassy-bright, but that was the only decent rock sound I got > from them. > http://www.kuas.net/kesaloma.mp3 > Cheers, > Dee

Same as you would’ve gotten w/ my amp suggestion

Response:

I had a BD 410 for years. Bought it when it first came out in 94, 95? Anyway it was a good sounding amp when I wasn’t working on it. First off it had crap speaker, blue ones of some sort and after a year they had weird rattles and buzzing and the rca jacks are surface mounted to the board and I was always having to resolder them to the trace on the board and they were plastic crap and I replaced one input jack twice. Some of the surface mount components came loose and had to be resoldered. It ended up being a studio amp because it wasn’t sturdy enough for road use and then it was never used in the studio because it was too loud for that. Regards B.H. Brian’s Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm Brian’s Basement http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/6.htm

Response:

Buy a BDV but do not buy amps or amp parts on E Bay.

Response:

> He drives a two-seater, by the way.

Tell him he’s responsible for hauling the amp. That way he’ll be *sure* before he buys!

Response:

> I had a BD 410 for years. Bought it when it first came out in 94, 95? Anyway > it was a good sounding amp when I wasn’t working on it. First off it had > crap speaker, blue ones of some sort and after a year they had weird rattles > and buzzing and the rca jacks are surface mounted to the board and I was > always having to resolder them to the trace on the board and they were > plastic crap and I replaced one input jack twice. Some of the surface mount > components came loose and had to be resoldered. It ended up being a studio > amp because it wasn’t sturdy enough for road use and then it was never used > in the studio because it was too loud for that.

At least half the BDV and HRD owners I’ve met say similar things. I think half the reason started "reissuing" amps was because they got pissed everyone else was making money off their classics and half was just to do something about the growing stigma of amps like these. Lessee… we can fix the problem, or fire up the hype machine. Moral answer or quick, dirty and cheap. Such hard decisions!

Response:

> Buy a BDV but do not buy amps or amp parts on > E Bay.

You take a chance on eBay, but like anything in life, you should weigh risk vs reward. If you buy on eBay, look for a discounted price. Since this is a used market, you will need to do a bit of research on completed items to get a sense of the market. Unless you are a DIY type, plan on spending $50-$200 with a competent tech to get it in top shape. Plan on getting hurt on the shipping, given the weight of the amp and if not packed properly, it could arrive broken. See here for proper shipping instructions. http://www.timeelect.com/Shipin.htm If you are thinking about eBay, it is best to give yourself an "observation period" of several weeks while you see how people market the product, how quickly it sells, etc. No jumping in on a thing in this price range. Take your time. Be rational. Be willing to let it go when the price goes above your limit. With expectations set at the right level, and some care, you could do OK on eBay. If you are not up to all of this, eBay isn’t for you (or your friend).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buy a BDV but do not buy amps or amp parts on > E Bay. > You take a chance on eBay, but like anything in life, you should weigh risk > vs reward. If you buy on eBay, look for a discounted price. Since this is > a used market, you will need to do a bit of research on completed items to > get a sense of the market. Unless you are a DIY type, plan on spending > $50-$200 with a competent tech to get it in top shape. Plan on getting hurt > on the shipping, given the weight of the amp and if not packed properly, it > could arrive broken. See here for proper shipping instructions. > http://www.timeelect.com/Shipin.htm > If you are thinking about eBay, it is best to give yourself an "observation > period" of several weeks while you see how people market the product, how > quickly it sells, etc. No jumping in on a thing in this price range. Take > your time. Be rational. Be willing to let it go when the price goes above > your limit. With expectations set at the right level, and some care, you > could do OK on eBay. > If you are not up to all of this, eBay isn’t for you (or your friend).

I get great deals on eBay. I buy Silverfaces for more money than they are worth, then sell them for less money. That way I get my money back real quick and in the meantime I get to play with the best amps ever made. You should here how they sound with my invisble guirtar!

Response:

Posted in Power Amp | No Comments » |

Vox AC30 for Blues… who??

Question:

I got an AC30 for my rock band but I’m planing to use for my blues band also… however, I did a search and it seems that the AC30 is not that popular among bluesmen… the amps is the most dynamic amp I ever played though, so I was wondering why is not that common in blues. The only guy I know who plays blues and used and AC30 is Rory Gallagher… does anybody know why AC30 didnt become a classic blues amp like the Bassman, for instance??? can someone point me to some good blues recorded with an AC30?? AC30 enthusiast, Carlos

Response:

pez_espada schrieb: > I got an AC30 for my rock band but I’m planing to use for my blues band > also… however, I did a search and it seems that the AC30 is not that > popular among bluesmen… the amps is the most dynamic amp I ever > played though, so I was wondering why is not that common in blues. The > only guy I know who plays blues and used and AC30 is Rory Gallagher… > does anybody know why AC30 didnt become a classic blues amp like the > Bassman, for instance??? can someone point me to some good blues > recorded with an AC30?? > AC30 enthusiast, Carlos

Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green? IMHO the AC30 is a top notch blues amp. Many acts played it in the past with every style of music. The only problem is, that the old ones are a bit too fragile for hard road use, so many musicians changed to more reliable amps like e.g. Fenders. Even Rory used other amps than the AC30 and not only occasionally. In 78 on the Rockpalast Videos, you can clearly see Fenders (Tweed and Brown Face) and an Ampeg, but not a single AC30. It

Posted in Vox Amp | No Comments » |

Opinions on Fender tube combo amps

Question:

Hello, I am looking for a Fender tube amp I could use both home (mainly) and on stage with pedals so that I could have a wide variety of sounds. I am not interested in multi-effet-simulator because I think they lack presence although they are versatile. What would you recommend? A new Twin Reberb? Thank you for your help

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am looking for a Fender tube amp I could use both home (mainly) and on > stage with pedals so that I could have a wide variety of sounds. I am not > interested in multi-effet-simulator because I think they lack presence > although they are versatile. > What would you recommend? A new Twin Reberb? > I recommend you take your guitar and pedals and go try a few amps and see > what sounds good to you.

EXCELLENT advice, considering that the "wide variety of sounds" would be derived at " home (mainly) and on stage with pedals ". Seems the only requirements are "Fender tube amp", a good sounding clean channel, the desired amount of power, and the budget.

Response:

A Twin Reverb is probably too powerful for all but the largest venues. Look at the smaller Fender combos like Blues Junior, the new Super Sonic or the Deluxe Reverb.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Hello, >>> I am looking for a Fender tube amp I could use both home (mainly) and >>> on stage with pedals so that I could have a wide variety of sounds. I >>> am not interested in multi-effet-simulator because I think they lack >>> presence although they are versatile. >>> What would you recommend? A new Twin Reberb? >> I recommend you take your guitar and pedals and go try a few amps and >> see what sounds good to you. > EXCELLENT advice, considering that the "wide variety of sounds" would be > derived at " home (mainly) and on stage with pedals ". Seems the only > requirements are "Fender tube amp", a good sounding clean channel, the > desired amount of power, and the budget. > Consider that the OP might find something he likes other than a Fender.

Mesa Boogie MK IV: Excellent Mesa Lonestar Special: KILLER!!!! 5W Class A, 15W or 30W (4 EL34’s) Also, EQ setup of multi-effects pedal makes *ALL* the difference. I tweaked all patches on a Zoom GFX-8 with- 1.] Ear and 2.] This in mind as guideline; SUB BASS: <60Hz BASS: 60-250Hz LOWER MIDS: 250Hz – 1.5kHz UPPER MIDS: 1.5 – 3.5kHz PRESENCE: 3.5 – 6kHz BRILLIANCE: >6kHz Additionally, at REASONABLE volumes, any distortion or OD is best from a tube stompbox (Radial’s ToneBone Classic) or a killer MOSFET box (ex/ Fulldrive Fulltone 2), in signal chain vs. that you’ll find in multifx. The tone for studio recording needs to be more ‘muted’ on the high end then that for live, that’s all -otherwise, you get ‘wasp in a jar / bee in a bottle’ syndrome…Also, "MUD" lives in the lower mid range around 400Hz. Kill mud! Good luck. mvm www.geocities.com/mvm55555

Response:

> Hello, > I am looking for a Fender tube amp I could use both home (mainly) and on > stage with pedals so that I could have a wide variety of sounds. I am not > interested in multi-effet-simulator because I think they lack presence > although they are versatile. > What would you recommend? A new Twin Reberb? > Thank you for your help

If you ONLY plan on using pedal tones, you could do much worse than a good silver face Twin Reverb. I’d go for the early seventies type, and get it looked over by a tech. But it you actually play some, you may find that you like something like a Super Reverb, where you can get some great tones without pedals.

Response:

"A Twin Reverb is probably too powerful for all but the largest venues. Look at the smaller Fender combos like Blues Junior, the new Super Sonic or the Deluxe Reverb." The Twin is damn heavy too! I know, I have 3 Fender combo’s, a Twin is among them. You don’t mention budget so if you can try out a few including the Twin, Deluxe and one of their Hot Rod series.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am looking for a Fender tube amp I could use both home (mainly) and on > stage with pedals so that I could have a wide variety of sounds. I am not > interested in multi-effet-simulator because I think they lack presence > although they are versatile. > What would you recommend? A new Twin Reberb? > Thank you for your help

Response:

> A Twin Reverb is probably too powerful for all but the largest venues. > Look at the smaller Fender combos like Blues Junior, the new Super > Sonic or the Deluxe Reverb.

Why? It has a volume control. Chris

Response:

Well you aren’t going to get power tube breakup except at ear splitting levels with a Twin Reverb. Unless you need all those watts and DB’s why miss out on that? I have a Blues Jr, a Bandmaster Reverb and a Marshall JTM45 and they all sound BEST cranked, which is damn loud and none of them are nearly as loud as a Twin Reverb. Blues Jr, good medium dirty all around tone, Bandmaster has great Fender Cleans, and Marshall has that Marshall roar for British rock sound. With a few peddles, I am set. Only thing better would be one amp that could do all three…

Response:

> > A Twin Reverb is probably too powerful for all but the largest venues. > Look at the smaller Fender combos like Blues Junior, the new Super > Sonic or the Deluxe Reverb. > Why? It has a volume control.

Yeah, but it’s not a master volume control and there’s no gain knob. True, the original poster stated that he’s going to be using pedals, but he might as well go with a SS amp if he’s planning to run totally clean all the time. Twins are really loud by the time they start hitting the point where they’re even compressing.

Response:

I was contemplating the Fender Twin Amp. There is a switch to change it from 100W to 25W and it has a clean channel and an overdrive channel. What do you guys think of this amp? With the overdrive channel there is a gain and a volume which means I can have a distorted sound at any volume, can’t I? If I had pedals through the effect loop it could be really versatile. Cheers

Response:

> I was contemplating the Fender Twin Amp. There is a switch to change it > from 100W to 25W and it has a clean channel and an overdrive channel. What > do you guys think of this amp? With the overdrive channel there is a gain > and a volume which means I can have a distorted sound at any volume, can’t > I? If I had pedals through the effect loop it could be really versatile. > Cheers

You’re talking about a different amp than the rest of us thought. You mean Fendeer Twin-Amp: http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0215700000 We were all thinking of an original style Twin which has no overdrive channel, effects loop or power switch.

Response:

>Hello, >I am looking for a Fender tube amp I could use both home (mainly) and on >stage with pedals so that I could have a wide variety of sounds. I am not >interested in multi-effet-simulator because I think they lack presence >although they are versatile. >What would you recommend? A new Twin Reberb? >Thank you for your help

Using a Twin Reverb at home would be like trying to hang a picture with a sledge hammer. It belongs on stage. Good choice though. Pete

Response:

> Well you aren’t going to get power tube breakup except at ear splitting > levels with a Twin Reverb.

Who says he wants power tube breakup? Chris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was contemplating the Fender Twin Amp. There is a switch to change it > from 100W to 25W and it has a clean channel and an overdrive channel. > What > do you guys think of this amp? With the overdrive channel there is a > gain > and a volume which means I can have a distorted sound at any volume, > can’t > I? If I had pedals through the effect loop it could be really versatile. > Cheers > You’re talking about a different amp than the rest of us thought. You > mean Fendeer Twin-Amp: > http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0215700000 > We were all thinking of an original style Twin which has no overdrive > channel, effects loop or power switch.

That’s a pretty versatile amp, but I used three different ones at three different gigs, and had problems with two. One had switching problems that no one could figure out and I couldn’t access the lowest gain and the other had a tendency to feed back into itself at medium volume levels. I’m sure that both problems were minor, but two out of three is a really poor average, and they were virtually brand new. BTW, they used to have another ProTube model called the Super Amp, which I liked a lot more, tone-wise anyway. Don

Response:

> You’re talking about a different amp than the rest of us thought. You > mean Fendeer Twin-Amp: > http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0215700000 > We were all thinking of an original style Twin which has no overdrive > channel, effects loop or power switch.

I am really sorry. I made a mistake in my original post…

Response:

> > You’re talking about a different amp than the rest of us thought. You > mean Fendeer Twin-Amp: > http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0215700000 > We were all thinking of an original style Twin which has no overdrive > channel, effects loop or power switch. > I am really sorry. I made a mistake in my original post…

No apologies. If you had wrote "Twin-Amp" I probably still would have assumed you meant "Twin." =)

Response:

>The Twin is damn heavy too!

Sorry, but a Twin IS too heavy. But try it with JBLs in it or EV white caped’s 12"s. I got one BF I rent out with old Celestion PowerCell speakers in it, big mag’s on each heavy frame. Had to replace the front wood. It sounds so damn good, n I’ve rented it out so many times that is has paid for it’s self 50 fold, and still rocks.. ..and I put real GEC KT66’s in it. Takes 2 to carry. JJTj

Response:

> Well you aren’t going to get power tube breakup except at ear splitting > levels with a Twin Reverb. > Who says he wants power tube breakup? > Chris

Everybody whos anybody wants power tube breakup!!! So There! BH

Response:

I recommend you find a good reproduction/boutique of a tweed deluxe in head form. Match it up with two 50 watt or higher celestions in a wide body 2×12. put whatever you like in front of the amp, and after the guitar, as far as effects go… Last step get busy… you can keep it quiet enogh for the house as long as you do not live in an appartment, and then mic the shit out of it on stage. you will retain the tube sound, and get whatever the hell you want out of it… Just my 2 pennies.. Peace, Swack…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Well you aren’t going to get power tube breakup except at ear splitting >>levels with a Twin Reverb. >Who says he wants power tube breakup? >Chris > Everybody whos anybody wants power tube breakup!!! So There! > BH

I may have wandered in to some strange parallel universe… Guncho even considering anything but power tube distortion. RELAX, I know it’s because the guy is talking pedals. We all know Guncho wouldn’t be caught dead without his LP Studio into his Seymour Duncan convertible with low preamp gain and tortured power tubes.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Well you aren’t going to get power tube breakup except at ear splitting >>>levels with a Twin Reverb. >>Who says he wants power tube breakup? >>Chris > Everybody whos anybody wants power tube breakup!!! So There! > BH > I may have wandered in to some strange parallel universe… Guncho even > considering anything but power tube distortion. > RELAX, I know it’s because the guy is talking pedals. We all know > Guncho wouldn’t be caught dead without his LP Studio into his Seymour > Duncan convertible with low preamp gain and tortured power tubes.

As opposed to Jim with his tortured neighbors, couches, low efficiency speakers and MULLARD’S IN V1! Chris

Response:

You mean that Fender faithful reproduction that doesn’t use those original control pots that lasted 40 years or more. You mean that Fender faithful reproduction that doesn’t use those original switchcraft input jacks that lasted 40 years or more. You mean that Fender faithful reproduction with the freaking printed circuit board in it, that is going to cost you more in repairs because the amp tech has to remove the whole thing to change a part on it. You mean that faithful reproduction that had parts selected on it from the cheapest venders possible, with design margins to the minimum. You mean that Fender faithful reproduction that is only faithful on the outside, and NOT the inside. You mean that Fender faithful reproduction that falls apart from it’s own speaker vibration. You mean that Fender faithful reproduction that comes supplied from the factory with the cheapest priced vacuum tubes they can find from off shore. You mean that Fender faithful reproduction of that Fender amp, that WAS the Fender legacy, they tell you about in their Frontline propaganda rag, is the target of that faithful reproduction. You mean that Fender faithful reproduction of the original Fender amp they forgot how to make. That one. > What would you recommend? A new Twin Reberb?

Not A chance. > Thank you for your help

From the 1980’s back to the Fender beginnings, get a real Fender amp. <thinking> Don’t mention Polished Turds around here. You may have to duck flying objects when mentioned. Some of the guys around here LOVE them to death. The turd huggers, they are. Imagine that. No, it’s a fact. Cya. <ducking flying objects> Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

Then do it! > If I had balls I’d list 3 "polished turd" *examples* each for; > 12AX7/ECC83 > a: > b: > c: > 6L6GC; > a: > b: > c:

and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EL34; > a: > b: > c: > I’d come up w/ a mere 9 tubes reflecting 9 manufacturers. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com

Response:

> Don’t mention Polished Turds around here. > You may have to duck flying objects when mentioned. > Some of the guys around here LOVE them to death.

Hey, Rich: I’m not meaning to get into a fight here, (really, I’m not!) but just where exactly IS this huge supply of RCA, Sylvania and GE tubes you keep referring to? Sure they were the shit, and nothing currentlly made nails it exactly, but not everybody can afford a $200 parts bill every time they need to retube their Pro Reverb. (note: yeah, yeah, I know, they last longer, so they don’t need re-tubing every year, but….). But the point is that the bulk of my customers are either impoverished college students and/or local bar players. The college students can barely afford Russian tubes and most pros I know just want the gear to work reliably (at a reasonable price) and to hell with the panache and tone tweaking. So, like it or not, JJs, Sovs, Svets, Sinos and other contemporary tubes will end up going into almost all of the gear out there (can you imagine what would happen to the price of NOS if it were otherwise???) I know you exclusively prefer NOS tubes, so they must be widely available. Care to say where? :-) –Mike Mike Schway | [Picture your favorite quote here]

Response:

> > Don’t mention Polished Turds around here. > You may have to duck flying objects when mentioned. > Some of the guys around here LOVE them to death. > Hey, Rich: > I’m not meaning to get into a fight here, (really, I’m not!)

> but just > where exactly IS this huge supply of RCA, Sylvania and GE tubes you keep > referring to?

You have to be a blood hound, and stay with it. I call a few trusted dealers, and let them know what I’m looking for. If they got ‘em, I get ‘em for my customers. Most of the time, I’m not in the middle, and send them straight to the dealer I trust. Not once have I gotten a complaint. Ebay is another source. Yes, you take your chances. But that is where you find them too. Me, I have my own personal stash of tubes I’ve put away years ago. I have over a 100 GE GE-6550A’s and maybe 60 GE-6L6GC’s left. The ones in my Super Reverb are over 14 years old, and still are as good as the ones in the stash. When it comes to 12AX7’s, AT7’s, and the rest of the various 9 pins, I have a stash for special customers who have been coming here for years. I’ve been buying and stashing for years. BUT, one day, there will be a new boy on the block. > Sure they were the shit, and nothing currentlly made nails it exactly, > but not everybody can afford a $200 parts bill every time they need to > retube their Pro Reverb. (note: yeah, yeah, I know, they last longer, > so they don’t need re-tubing every year, but….).

Which, is true. Mark just posted for me to name some polished turds for him. And, I’m not. It’s not up to me to do such a thing. When, in the face of all the turds, NONE equal a Sylvania So, pick any three from the whole freaking pile of shit you want. You don’t NEED ME to pick them As long as you continue buying the turds, and are not COMPLAINING directly to the people who make them, what do you expect. You ain’t YELLING at them, THIS AIN’T NO FREAKING Sylvania 6L6GC, or GE. ROTFLMFAO, yours truly is the only voice ever heard here saying that for years. All you turd huggers buy their shit, and kiss their asses. As long as the continues, what’s going to change. The bottle. The base. The Alphabet Soup brand on the glass, or box. There’s no pressure on them to make a better tube. So, you keep buying them, you keep silent and don’t complain directly about them, so keep on waiting for hell to freeze over. > But the point is that the bulk of my customers are either impoverished > college students and/or local bar players. The college students can > barely afford Russian tubes and most pros I know just want the gear to > work reliably (at a reasonable price) and to hell with the panache and > tone tweaking.

Well, the world has changed and the working musicians can’t afford a pre C Fender either. Nor, WILL Fender make such at an affordable price, when they have the custom shop concept with their jacked prices in the MIX. The vintage market made that possible. It’s a corporate world now, with it’s global economy thing going on. It’s all over the place. Cars, guitars, pool sticks, toasters, holiday decorations, etc….. Hey, it cost me now 100.00 a quart of paint to paint a guitar now. Imagine that. Thinner was 2.00 a gal when I started. Now it’s 20 bux. There ya go. I even have to make connections outside of the country to get banned paints now. Gibson and Fender don’t give a shit. It ain’t getting any easier for me either. > So, like it or not, JJs, Sovs, Svets, Sinos and other contemporary tubes > will end up going into almost all of the gear out there (can you imagine > what would happen to the price of NOS if it were otherwise???)

The markets drive the prices. Is it fair. Shit no. But, as long as you want cheap, and buy cheap, you are going to keep on getting cheap. There is no doubt that there is GOLD in selling Polished Look around you. I know what it takes to put a tube in production here in the states. I’ve had to wait for the prices on the Polished Turds to go up enough to think about making a move. Putting a tube in production has such startup cost here, we could go out of business, by going into business, real fast. We can’t pay bills if the market won’t pay the price to keep the doors open. It has never been a question of can we make a tube better than a polished turd. That, is a given. Making back the startup investment, and keeping the doors open is the big question. You need many trained people that have to be paid at wages to support a living here in the USA. Not some off shore country. None of the majors will buy from us. We knew this when we first marched the 9022 around NAMM. Andy Marshall was the only one who was interested in what we had, and more importantly, was more interested in what the tube was and did. The rest only cared about PRICE. THAT, was their freaking bottom line. So, just who is going to keep our doors open and our people with food on the table. Is there a future making tubes here in this country, is now the question. Andy Marshall could not buy enough tubes alone to keep our doors open. That’s why the 9022 has been on the shelf. We are waiting more for the turd & NOS market to change in our favor. The "not quite" tube replacement is their game, not ours. We have something else in mind. > I know you exclusively prefer NOS tubes, so they must be widely > available. Care to say where? :-) > –Mike

Mike, there is more of the NOS shit around, than you think. People are sitting on that stuff as a big investment. I know of two places where that stuff is sitting, and when the price is right, the doors will open, and some will suddenly be found. That, is how it’s been all along. There is a lot of that government surplus still sitting going up in value. It’s not ALL gone yet. You can still find Sylvania 7581’s when the 6L6GC’s dried up. When Sylvania closed up, do you have any idea how many thousands and thousands were still in their warehouses. Not to mention, in US government warehouses. What date did they close. What’s on your calendar now. There ya go. You ever notice how there have always been these DRY SPELLS, then there are these JUST IN announcements all along the way. Well, the dry spells get a little longer now, and the prices are really getting up there. So much the better it makes the market for coming out with a new tube. I’m just sitting back playing the waiting game in the mean time. When there is a sure market for our product, there will be one. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

Posted in Fender Amp | No Comments » |

FOH set up question… mic "clips" for amps..

Question:

About 6-7 yrs ago, at a gig, the sound-man had ‘clips’ that he used on the guitar amps, to mic them. They had a thumb-screw that tightened the clip to the cab just in front of the baffle (the edge of the cab extending ‘past’ the baffle). It had a short adjustable ‘arm’ and a mic clip… It was ‘fast’, efficient, and I’d like to find a couple…. Anybody know where…?? Product info…?? Brand, etc..??? Thanks

Response:

> About 6-7 yrs ago, at a gig, the sound-man had ‘clips’ that he used on > the guitar amps, to mic them. They had a thumb-screw that tightened > the clip to the cab just in front of the baffle (the edge of the cab > extending ‘past’ the baffle). It had a short adjustable ‘arm’ and a > mic clip… > It was ‘fast’, efficient, and I’d like to find a couple…. > Anybody know where…?? Product info…?? Brand, etc..??? > Thanks

Yeah! And while you’re at it, anyone know where to get those L shaped mic holders that slip though your amp handle? Don

Response:

Look at "drum mic clips", be looking for the heaviest plastic or metal you can find. – DJ

Response:

>About 6-7 yrs ago, at a gig, the sound-man had ‘clips’ that he used on >the guitar amps, to mic them. They had a thumb-screw that tightened >the clip to the cab just in front of the baffle (the edge of the cab >extending ‘past’ the baffle). It had a short adjustable ‘arm’ and a >mic clip… >It was ‘fast’, efficient, and I’d like to find a couple…. >Anybody know where…?? Product info…?? Brand, etc..??? >Thanks

I’ve got a clip thing that’ll hold a mic to whatever by a company that’s called "On-Stage Stands". Just found their website, but I’m having trouble finding what I have. http://www.onstagestands.com/ OK…. found it here: http://www.onstagestands.com/2006brochures/miic_brochure.pdf (Slow loading pdf. You probably need to save it to your HD to view it) Page 7. In that picture on the lower right hand side. "Clothespin Style Microphone Clip" is what I have. But what you describe the soundman using, with the thumbscrew sounds more like (on the left side of the same page 7) their "DM50 Drum Rim Mic Clip" Found the clothespin thing at MusicGoRound. It’s still attached to it’s cardboard, which is why I know who the company it. If you can’t find anything at a regular music store, just keep in mind that drummers have some great hardware available to them, so find a music store that caters to drummers, and you should be able to dig something up. Pete

Response:

Posted in Guitar amp | No Comments » |

CCS for LTP tail ???

Question:

I have a 25W fender amp with x2 6L6 (used to be 6V6) in class AB1 Push Pull driven by a 12AX7 Long Tail Pair phase inverter (has 82k & 100K plate resistors and 1M grid to ground resistors and a 680 ohm common cathode resistor with a 6.8K tail resistor. Also has NFB. Overall I have been re-working this amp to get more headroom. I have seen a few posts in google groups that suggest using a CCS (constant current source) to replace the tail circuit (the 680 R, 6.8K, and the 0.1 cap going to the lower leg of the pair) with the intended result of helping to reduce distortion caused by the PI running out of headroom and also not driving the output tubes fully. (by increasing the negative voltage swing ?) Some suggest using a small pentode for this purpose. Others mention series diodes and boozehound labs suggest a choke dubbed "the choke tailed pair". Do any of these ideas have merit ??? I have substituted a lower gain and higher current/ transconductance 12AU7 in place of the PI 12AX7 and it did seem to help improve clean headroom as well as liven up the tone. Should I adjust circuit values to better suit the different performance properties of the 12AU7. If so… what ? I haven’t seen any example of this tube in a LTP configuration to get some clue. What might be a tried and true method of increasing headroom. (have a 12ax7-M in the first preamp hole and don’t really want to use lower gain tube there)…perhaps lower the 100K plate R a bit and or raise the bias R to tame the first stage a bit without loosing too much oomph. ? Also, some blues express circuits use 9.1 V zener diodes across the legs after the phase inverter to help prevent the output grids from going positive ??? ??? isn’t a bit of positive drive good for tone ? Sorry for all the questions but needed to address the headroom issue thoroughly. Thanks, Savy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have a 25W fender amp with x2 6L6 (used to be 6V6) in class AB1 Push > Pull driven by a 12AX7 Long Tail Pair phase inverter (has 82k & 100K > plate resistors and 1M grid to ground resistors and a 680 ohm common > cathode resistor with a 6.8K tail resistor. Also has NFB. > Overall I have been re-working this amp to get more headroom. > I have seen a few posts in google groups that suggest using a CCS > (constant current source) to replace the tail circuit (the 680 R, 6.8K, > and the 0.1 cap going to the lower leg of the pair) with the intended > result of helping to reduce distortion caused by the PI running out of > headroom and also not driving the output tubes fully. (by increasing > the negative voltage swing ?) > Some suggest using a small pentode for this purpose. Others mention > series diodes and boozehound labs suggest a choke dubbed "the choke > tailed pair". > Do any of these ideas have merit ???

Not so sure, but it seems like the original Fender PI circuit needs little improvement. (See more comments below) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have substituted a lower gain and higher current/ transconductance > 12AU7 in place of the PI 12AX7 and it did seem to help improve clean > headroom as well as liven up the tone. Should I adjust circuit values > to better suit the different performance properties of the 12AU7. If > so… what ? I haven’t seen any example of this tube in a LTP > configuration to get some clue. > What might be a tried and true method of increasing headroom. (have a > 12ax7-M in the first preamp hole and don’t really want to use lower > gain tube there)…perhaps lower the 100K plate R a bit and or raise > the bias R to tame the first stage a bit without loosing too much > oomph. ? > Also, some blues express circuits use 9.1 V zener diodes across the > legs after the phase inverter to help prevent the output grids from > going positive ??? > ??? isn’t a bit of positive drive good for tone ? > Sorry for all the questions but needed to address the headroom issue > thoroughly. > Thanks, Savy

Addressing the preamp, I would start at the first stage triode with little gain while gradually increasing gain in the following triodes up to the PI by either selecting the tubes based on their gain or altering their plate, cathode and grid resistors. You’ll have to experiment with different ratios without going to extremes otherwise you end up with assymetrical waveforms which will result in more distortion. Refer to Traynor schematics. The Traynors I’ve heard have plenty of headroom. Notice too how their PI circuit is almost identical to Fender’s if not identical (just drawn a little differently). If you want *lots* of headroom, get a really high voltage power transformer to widen the rails (after rectified, of course) and output tubes that can take high VDC. You’ll also need an output transformer and speaker to match. Good luck preserving or increasing tone quality while on your quest for more headroom. Ed Sonic Surgery New Orleans Earth

Response:

Cool Ed. Thanks I’ll be sure to check out Traynor. I did just play on an old Traynor yb1 and you are right about the goodly amount of headroom. My present PT and OT are the same as used in the fender deluxe (seems to handle the upgrade to 6L6’s OK) but I will consider refitting with 40 W trannys a la Super or Pro although I still would like to be able drive the outputs into subtle saturation with picking dynamics without being overly loud. I like playing blues leads with a neck possition PAF humbucker (alnico 5 magnet and 6.8 k…not overly hot) driving a pair of 6L6GE rated for early breakup (#3) via the 12au7 PI to get that smooth singing woman tone (nails it !) but the thing is more or less a one trick pony. Now with the finals changed to later breakup (#6) I can at least get somewhat cleaner sound for more articulate and defined rhythum playing but also kind of loose that woman tone magic. What I’d like to achieve is the best of both. Perhaps with going to extreme clean output tube characteristics that might be had with Jan Phillips 7581A and maybe insert a casscaded mini pentode gainstage that can be blended in parallel with the original last preamp 12ax7 gainstage to dial in sweetness as desired thus simulating the breakup of the #3s but still allowing clean when needed. Anyone know the animal I’m describing ? I don’t think I want to drive the front of the amp so as to avoid too much preamp distortion. Maybe i should just scrap the fender (being hopeless) and build a matchless lightning or something ! ???

Response:

> Cool Ed. Thanks I’ll be sure to check out Traynor. I did just play on > an old Traynor yb1 and you are right about the goodly amount of > headroom. > My present PT and OT are the same as used in the fender deluxe (seems > to handle the upgrade to 6L6’s OK) but I will consider refitting with > 40 W trannys a la Super or Pro although I still would like to be able > drive the outputs into subtle saturation with picking dynamics without > being overly loud.

Check out Hammond power transformers and the specs at CE Distribution. They are also top mounted so you won’t have to widen the square punched opening. Instead all you have to do is drill some holes for mounting bolts. Haven’t tried Hammond output transformers and am somewhat reluctant to since many transformer makers are using the ancient techniques of using paper interleaves and inferior iron core which tends to add some color to the tone instead of the highly efficient constructed ones. > I like playing blues leads with a neck possition PAF humbucker (alnico > 5 magnet and 6.8 k…not overly hot) driving a pair of 6L6GE rated for > early breakup (#3) via the 12au7 PI to get that smooth singing woman > tone (nails it !) but the thing is more or less a one trick pony. Now > with the finals changed to later breakup (#6) I can at least get > somewhat cleaner sound for more articulate and defined rhythum playing > but also kind of loose that woman tone magic.

I constructed a homemade model roughly based on a tweed Twin but only with a single channel. This left me with one unused triode. So I installed a footswitch controlled relay to add or bypass an extra triode circuit to the rest of the preamp along with a pot to control its amount of gain as sort of a boost circuit for going to lead with a little more volume and a little more edge. And I managed to install it in a Mojo Princeton repro chassis. You could try something like that and get your relay DC source from the bias circuit. Observe how Fender does it in a Blues Deluxe to change channels. > What I’d like to achieve is the best of both. Perhaps with going to > extreme clean output tube characteristics that might be had with Jan > Phillips 7581A and maybe insert a casscaded mini pentode gainstage that > can be blended in parallel with the original last preamp 12ax7 > gainstage to dial in sweetness as desired thus simulating the breakup > of the #3s but still allowing clean when needed.

That sounds like a good approach too. > Anyone know the animal I’m describing ? > I don’t think I want to drive the front of the amp so as to avoid too > much preamp distortion. > Maybe i should just scrap the fender (being hopeless) and build a > matchless lightning or something !

Instead of that, preserve the Fender and start with a blank chassis from Mojo. They make Deluxe ones too.

Response:

@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a 25W fender amp with x2 6L6 (used to be 6V6) in class AB1 Push > Pull driven by a 12AX7 Long Tail Pair phase inverter (has 82k & 100K > plate resistors and 1M grid to ground resistors and a 680 ohm common > cathode resistor with a 6.8K tail resistor. Also has NFB. > Overall I have been re-working this amp to get more headroom. > I have seen a few posts in google groups that suggest using a CCS > (constant current source) to replace the tail circuit (the 680 R, 6.8K, > and the 0.1 cap going to the lower leg of the pair) with the intended > result of helping to reduce distortion caused by the PI running out of > headroom and also not driving the output tubes fully. (by increasing > the negative voltage swing ?) > Some suggest using a small pentode for this purpose. Others mention > series diodes and boozehound labs suggest a choke dubbed "the choke > tailed pair".

I’ve seen this idea, and iot is interesting but it’s purpose is not for increasing distortion-free headroom, but for getting more distortion and over a more controllable range of input levels, I believe.

Response:

Thanks flipper for the thorough explanation… helps very much ! >"the feedback you mention should be going to the bottom of the 6.8K,

as does the .1uF cap, and then there’s another resistor you don’t mention, a 4.7K, going on to ground. That resistor is part of both the ‘feedback’ (setting the ratio) and the tail. And it’s tail function is not intuitively obvious if you’re not familiar with bootstrapping techniques. (Also, the 1 meg grid resistors should be going to the intersection of the 680 ohm [820 in this case] and 6.8k, not ‘ground’)"<<. Yes you are right ! My bad. The circuit is in a princeton reverb 2 (rivera era design) similar to boogie mark1 or trainwreck express. I did try subbing in a choke in place of the 6.8k tail with no other changes and could not tell what if any change took place but the amp was rocking out well and getting compliments all around anyway. Not sure if the choke helped quell distortion or change cutoff point or anything (when the PI goes into cutoff the NFB gets momentairly interupted and causes distortion ???)…something along those lines. Some one suggested using a choke tail (promoting balance and increasing negative V swing) as well as chokes on the plates (inplace of the 82 k& 100 k resistors) to increase positive V swing. My goal is to get more voltage swing in the PI. I am mainly (firstly) looking to improve headroom and secondly re-introduce subtle saturated pentode overdrive as desired. > "So I installed a footswitch controlled relay to add or bypass an extra

triode circuit to the rest of the preamp along with a pot to control its amount of gain as sort of a boost circuit for going to lead with a little more volume and a little more edge. "<< Similiarly I can get a good adjustable switchable boost by patching reverb send and receive (with the rev tranny terminated) so now the remote switchable reverb with adjustable gain (reverb pot) can be used for lead boost by sending the massive V2 (paralled triode) signal to drive the rev recovery half of V3 but this is still preamp type distortion. I am more interested in having pentode type distortion. The other half of V3 is what would normally be overdriven via "pull boost" (that i don’t use) and so this is where I thought the proposed little pentodes might come into play as an alternative to driving V3.

Response:

Hi, I couldn’t figure out exactly how to post an image in the usernet group so here it is another way around See the schematic I’ve posted here : Copy and paste the following into your browser I guess ? http://www.esnips.com/imageable/medium/a9f9c352-bf72-435e-8557-dbe89e… Note that this amp was intended to mimic early boogie designs and so it inherently has low headroom by design (even with the original 6V6s it breaks up at only 4 or 5 vol.). The transformers are the same as the ones used in deluxe amps " PT # 019118 = Schumacher EIA 606-222 and OT # 022640 = EIA 606-218 (as opposed to smaller units normally used in BF princeton) and it has been stated that they can handle 6L6s OK. The only change I’ve made to use 6L6s has been installing individual 20k pots with 15k shunt (if memory serves) that changes the original -33V at the 82k/100k plate resistor node to -41V or there abouts (like what we normally expect to see in 6L6 amps). Now that you have the schem… where is my headroom hiding. Upgrading transformers might be the best bet ? thanks, paul

Response:

Try http://www.fenderholic.com/schem/pricervbII_sch.jpg The amp was designed for 20 watts with an OT primary impedance of 6.5k. I think 6L6 likes to see 5k and 6v6 likes 8k so I’m in the middle. The change to 6L6 in this amp might only increase the wattage by 5 watts (if any at all). It would seem the only really taxing thing might be the higher heater current required for 6L6s (an extra 900ma overall). Being that this amp was intended to mimic Mesa Boggie it might just be all around gainy and hot biased anyway (clean headroom was not the goal). I did try subbing in lower gain tubes in the preamp stages but found it lost the upfront character I like. (love the SRV sound). My local amp tech is on the road with April Wine most of the time and hard to get his attention over the hundred unfinished repair projects sitting around his bench. I had better learn to do my own stuff !

Response:

I’ve missed a lot of this thread, so dunno if you mentioned what kind of speakers, but high efficiency speakers is one way to get more clean headroom.

Response:

: Try : : http://www.fenderholic.com/schem/pricervbII_sch.jpg : : The amp was designed for 20 watts with an OT primary impedance of 6.5k. : : I think 6L6 likes to see 5k and 6v6 likes 8k so I’m in the middle. : : The change to 6L6 in this amp might only increase the wattage by 5 : watts (if any at all). : : It would seem the only really taxing thing might be the higher heater : current required for 6L6s (an extra 900ma overall). : : Being that this amp was intended to mimic Mesa Boggie it might just be : all around gainy and hot biased anyway (clean headroom was not the : goal). : : I did try subbing in lower gain tubes in the preamp stages but found it : lost the upfront character I like. : : (love the SRV sound). Then you might want to try some different caps for the PI’s constant current source bootstrap. A paper in oil cap might give some more depth and detail and character than a mylar cap in that spot. Although I’m not too keen on mylar caps, peoples tastes vary so what ain’t one mans cup of tea might be just the brew for another. I do use mylar caps for FX circuits once in a blue moon. IMO, mylar caps are practically FX units themselves. A polypropylene paralled with a polystyrene might also be a good combo with the polypropylene providing clarity and punch and the styrene softening up the highs a bit. Sometimes pretty good results can be had with electrolytics if one wants to take the time to go through a shitload of them (since their tonal responses can vary greatly). A good trick with electrolytics is to parallel some small values across larger values if you want to improve the high end. For example, a .1uf 50V miniature electrolytic will generally have better high frequency response simply by virtue of it’s smaller architecture. It never ceases to amaze me the range of sounds that can be had if one wants to take the time try multitudes of various electrolytic combo’s. BTW PIO (as well as other) caps can often benefit from the same bypass techniques. One thing you might find surprising is how improving the high end dynamic response of the CCS bootstrap circuit can tighten up the bass. I realize this sounds far fetched, but even bass notes need some detail to sound sharp and not weak and mushy. IOW, it won’t *increase* the bass response of the amp, but it will tighten it up. Also., I am constantly amazed at how simply changing an amps tonal and dynamic response can change the way it’s loudness or headroom is perceived. So, who knows, don’t rule out the possibility that your headroom problem might actually be simply a tonal or dynamic issue or the possibility that whatever solution you do find to your problem might be even further enhanced with a little tone and dynamic response capacitor tweaking. Insofar as the PI botstrap cap goes, my advice would be to go for a large value there for overall tightness along with one or two smaller value paralled bypass caps to make up for the poor high end that a lot of the larger caps suffer from. : My local amp tech is on the road with April Wine most of the time and : hard to get his attention over the hundred unfinished repair projects : sitting around his bench. I had better learn to do my own stuff ! :

Response:

Posted in Fender Amp | No Comments » |

Too Much Noise

Question:

For those of you who read my posts, I would hope that you will realize ever since I promised not to initiate an off topic thread that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan the topics, I’m seeing way too many political posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. Have we run out of relevant things to talk about amps? That’s what we’re here for, right? A little diversion here and there of off topic stuff is no big deal, but with more off topic posts than on topic is getting a bit boring even though I believe politics is partially related since it involves our Constitutional rights regarding freedom of expression and that pertains to music and lyrics and the freedom to exchange ideas vs. censorship. It also affects commerce and how the music industry is affected. It’s all somewhat interrelated. From what I hear, some schools simply have dropped music or music appreciation classes just like many have dropped art and art appreciation classes. I don’t think drone school providers even offer art or music classes on their DVDs either . The state of the economy influences how many people are going to show up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat relevant, but I keep looking for posts that ask questions involving something I know something about yet I see very few questions being asked. Opinions on gear are good to post about, but happens to not be my cup of tea even though some folks might need other’s opinions to help them decide on whether or not to buy a particular instrument. This is simply a request. Can we ease up on the petty arguing about political events and our political positions a little and instead make more of an effort to be relevant about guitar amps? KABONG!~!~

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >For those of you who read my posts, >I would hope that you will realize ever since >I promised not to initiate an off topic thread >that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve >sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. >But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying >to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan >the topics, I’m seeing way too many political >posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic >posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when >the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. >Have we run out of relevant things >to talk about amps? That’s what >we’re here for, right? A little diversion >here and there of off topic stuff is >no big deal, but with more off topic >posts than on topic is getting a bit >boring even though I believe politics is partially >related since it involves our Constitutional >rights regarding freedom of expression >and that pertains to music and lyrics >and the freedom to exchange ideas >vs. censorship. >It also affects commerce and how the >music industry is affected. It’s all >somewhat interrelated. From what >I hear, some schools simply have >dropped music or music appreciation >classes just like many have dropped >art and art appreciation classes. >I don’t think drone school providers >even offer art or music classes on >their DVDs either >. >The state of the economy influences >how many people are going to show >up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat >relevant, but I keep looking for posts >that ask questions involving something >I know something about yet I see very >few questions being asked. Opinions >on gear are good to post about, >but happens to not be my cup of tea >even though some folks might need >other’s opinions to help them decide >on whether or not to buy a particular >instrument. >This is simply a request. Can we ease >up on the petty arguing about political >events and our political positions a little >and instead make more of an effort >to be relevant about guitar amps? >KABONG!~!~

Agreed. And if that don’t work just killfile the Librarian, Timepixdc and Mr. Soul and watch all that OT bullshit disappear.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For those of you who read my posts, >I would hope that you will realize ever since >I promised not to initiate an off topic thread >that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve >sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. >But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying >to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan >the topics, I’m seeing way too many political >posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic >posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when >the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. >Have we run out of relevant things >to talk about amps? That’s what >we’re here for, right? A little diversion >here and there of off topic stuff is >no big deal, but with more off topic >posts than on topic is getting a bit >boring even though I believe politics is partially >related since it involves our Constitutional >rights regarding freedom of expression >and that pertains to music and lyrics >and the freedom to exchange ideas >vs. censorship. >It also affects commerce and how the >music industry is affected. It’s all >somewhat interrelated. From what >I hear, some schools simply have >dropped music or music appreciation >classes just like many have dropped >art and art appreciation classes. >I don’t think drone school providers >even offer art or music classes on >their DVDs either >. >The state of the economy influences >how many people are going to show >up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat >relevant, but I keep looking for posts >that ask questions involving something >I know something about yet I see very >few questions being asked. Opinions >on gear are good to post about, >but happens to not be my cup of tea >even though some folks might need >other’s opinions to help them decide >on whether or not to buy a particular >instrument. >This is simply a request. Can we ease >up on the petty arguing about political >events and our political positions a little >and instead make more of an effort >to be relevant about guitar amps? >KABONG!~!~ > Agreed. > And if that don’t work just killfile the Librarian, Timepixdc and Mr. > Soul and watch all that OT bullshit disappear.

You left out flipper, wheaton and devin, mostly flipper.

Response:

The election will be over soon. > Have we run out of relevant things > to talk about amps? That’s what > we’re here for, right? A little diversion > here and there of off topic stuff is > no big deal, but with more off topic > posts than on topic is getting a bit > boring even though I believe politics is partially > related since it involves our Constitutional > rights regarding freedom of expression > and that pertains to music and lyrics > and the freedom to exchange ideas > vs. censorship.

YES > It also affects commerce and how the > music industry is affected. It’s all > somewhat interrelated. From what > I hear, some schools simply have > dropped music or music appreciation > classes just like many have dropped > art and art appreciation classes. > I don’t think drone school providers > even offer art or music classes on > their DVDs either > .

YES YES and No they don’t. > The state of the economy influences > how many people are going to show > up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat > relevant, but I keep looking for posts > that ask questions involving something > I know something about yet I see very > few questions being asked. Opinions > on gear are good to post about, > but happens to not be my cup of tea > even though some folks might need > other’s opinions to help them decide > on whether or not to buy a particular > instrument.

That’s interesting. I participate in a survey from time to time sponsored by You Go Gov. On today’s questionaire, one of the topics they seemed to be very interested in was how often I go to live perofrmances, or theater, or movies. These questions were interpersed with the usual questions about how I felt about the economy, bush, and whether or not I could articulate why BP and Mobile Exxon might be bad guys up there in Alaska. So someone willing to pay for a big dollar consumer study is asking if anyone is showing up at gigs. > This is simply a request. Can we ease > up on the petty arguing about political > events and our political positions a little > and instead make more of an effort > to be relevant about guitar amps?

I noticed that several recent technical questions asked in the group recently could be answered by googling the group and reading posts from 2003, 2004, 2005 and on. So yeah, you may not realize it but there’s a lot of groundhog day here. I mean what’s new in old techology??? And as the man said – just don’t read the OT posts. What I get tired of is "you lied, no I didn’t, you lied, no I didn’t," and "I stuck my hand in my diaper and farted"….but then I don’t have to read it either. If you want a censored environment get a moderated group and quit complaining. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> KABONG!~!~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The election will be over soon. > Have we run out of relevant things > to talk about amps? That’s what > we’re here for, right? A little diversion > here and there of off topic stuff is > no big deal, but with more off topic > posts than on topic is getting a bit > boring even though I believe politics is partially > related since it involves our Constitutional > rights regarding freedom of expression > and that pertains to music and lyrics > and the freedom to exchange ideas > vs. censorship. > YES > It also affects commerce and how the > music industry is affected. It’s all > somewhat interrelated. From what > I hear, some schools simply have > dropped music or music appreciation > classes just like many have dropped > art and art appreciation classes. > I don’t think drone school providers > even offer art or music classes on > their DVDs either > . > YES YES and No they don’t. > The state of the economy influences > how many people are going to show > up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat > relevant, but I keep looking for posts > that ask questions involving something > I know something about yet I see very > few questions being asked. Opinions > on gear are good to post about, > but happens to not be my cup of tea > even though some folks might need > other’s opinions to help them decide > on whether or not to buy a particular > instrument. > That’s interesting. I participate in a survey from time to time > sponsored by You Go Gov. On today’s questionaire, one of the topics > they seemed to be very interested in was how often I go to live > perofrmances, or theater, or movies. These questions were interpersed > with the usual questions about how I felt about the economy, bush, and > whether or not I could articulate why BP and Mobile Exxon might be bad > guys up there in Alaska. So someone willing to pay for a big dollar > consumer study is asking if anyone is showing up at gigs. > This is simply a request. Can we ease > up on the petty arguing about political > events and our political positions a little > and instead make more of an effort > to be relevant about guitar amps? > I noticed that several recent technical questions asked in the group > recently could be answered by googling the group and reading posts from > 2003, 2004, 2005 and on. So yeah, you may not realize it but there’s a > lot of groundhog day here. I mean what’s new in old techology???

Subtleties you most likely are not aware of, however…true, some have been addressed before. > And as the man said – just don’t read the OT posts. What I get tired of > is "you lied, no I didn’t, you lied, no I didn’t," and "I stuck my hand > in my diaper and farted"….but then I don’t have to read it either.

Yep, that’s the boring part of the OTs. >If > you want a censored environment get a moderated group and quit > complaining.

I was agreeing with you up to that point you put words in my mouth about "wanting a censored environment" and telling me I was complaining. It was a simple observation and request. This is a free-form-forum and I like it that way. We could do better without air guitarist dingalings, but it’s a "free" country and a free internet. For now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> KABONG!~!~

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > For those of you who read my posts, > I would hope that you will realize ever since > I promised not to initiate an off topic thread > that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve > sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. > But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying > to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan > the topics, I’m seeing way too many political > posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic > posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when > the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. > Have we run out of relevant things > to talk about amps? That’s what > we’re here for, right? A little diversion > here and there of off topic stuff is > no big deal, but with more off topic > posts than on topic is getting a bit > boring even though I believe politics is partially > related since it involves our Constitutional > rights regarding freedom of expression > and that pertains to music and lyrics > and the freedom to exchange ideas > vs. censorship. > It also affects commerce and how the > music industry is affected. It’s all > somewhat interrelated. From what > I hear, some schools simply have > dropped music or music appreciation > classes just like many have dropped > art and art appreciation classes. > I don’t think drone school providers > even offer art or music classes on > their DVDs either > . > The state of the economy influences > how many people are going to show > up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat > relevant, but I keep looking for posts > that ask questions involving something > I know something about yet I see very > few questions being asked. Opinions > on gear are good to post about, > but happens to not be my cup of tea > even though some folks might need > other’s opinions to help them decide > on whether or not to buy a particular > instrument. > This is simply a request. Can we ease > up on the petty arguing about political > events and our political positions a little > and instead make more of an effort > to be relevant about guitar amps? > KABONG!~!~

You’re correct, Ed, it’s off the scale. Personally, it has always seemed to me that if an individual played an amped instrument, repaired or built amps, they were welcome to mix in OT material at any ratio they pleased. All the more entertaining, as long as they had the ability to go on topic and be equally informative. When people who don’t know a E7#9 from a tube,resistor,capacitor to a graphite nut enter the fray and delve deeply into shit only news anchors could blabber on about, bitching, bitching, bitching, it’s WAY too much noise from their post #1. My purposefully ludicrous forays into human scat world have been 100% with the latter in mind. The Ans: ID & Filter Them. They wind up talking at each other and players/techs can’t see it. It’d be perfect if they in turn filtered us, as well. Parallel worlds AGA style mvm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For those of you who read my posts, > I would hope that you will realize ever since > I promised not to initiate an off topic thread > that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve > sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. > But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying > to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan > the topics, I’m seeing way too many political > posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic > posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when > the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. > Have we run out of relevant things > to talk about amps? That’s what > we’re here for, right? A little diversion > here and there of off topic stuff is > no big deal, but with more off topic > posts than on topic is getting a bit > boring even though I believe politics is partially > related since it involves our Constitutional > rights regarding freedom of expression > and that pertains to music and lyrics > and the freedom to exchange ideas > vs. censorship. > It also affects commerce and how the > music industry is affected. It’s all > somewhat interrelated. From what > I hear, some schools simply have > dropped music or music appreciation > classes just like many have dropped > art and art appreciation classes. > I don’t think drone school providers > even offer art or music classes on > their DVDs either > . > The state of the economy influences > how many people are going to show > up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat > relevant, but I keep looking for posts > that ask questions involving something > I know something about yet I see very > few questions being asked. Opinions > on gear are good to post about, > but happens to not be my cup of tea > even though some folks might need > other’s opinions to help them decide > on whether or not to buy a particular > instrument. > This is simply a request. Can we ease > up on the petty arguing about political > events and our political positions a little > and instead make more of an effort > to be relevant about guitar amps? > KABONG!~!~ > You’re correct, Ed, it’s off the scale. > Personally, it has always seemed to me that if an individual played an > amped instrument, repaired or built amps, they were welcome to mix in OT > material at any ratio they pleased. All the more entertaining, as long > as they had the ability to go on topic and be equally informative. > When people who don’t know a E7#9 from a tube,resistor,capacitor to a > graphite nut enter the fray and delve deeply into shit only news anchors > could blabber on about, bitching, bitching, bitching, it’s WAY too much > noise from their post #1. > My purposefully ludicrous forays into human scat world have been 100% > with the latter in mind. > The Ans: ID & Filter Them. They wind up talking at each other and > players/techs can’t see it. It’d be perfect if they in turn filtered us, > as well. Parallel worlds AGA style mvm

Thanks Marc for seeing the whole picture. I have yet to plonk anyone and even though some exchanges get boring. But I still get a real kick out of your "purposefully ludicrous forays into human scat world" to ricicule the neocronycons and their sycophants. Many of whom I suspect are air guitarist fuddy duddies and post nothing but irrelevant drivel anyway.

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It was actually very quiet on the political front until Wheaton wiener came back from wherever he was parading bad dance steps and started posting again. — Ken Wilson

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did courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For those of you who read my posts, >I would hope that you will realize ever since >I promised not to initiate an off topic thread >that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve >sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. >But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying >to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan >the topics, I’m seeing way too many political >posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic >posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when >the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. >Have we run out of relevant things >to talk about amps? That’s what >we’re here for, right? A little diversion >here and there of off topic stuff is >no big deal, but with more off topic >posts than on topic is getting a bit >boring even though I believe politics is partially >related since it involves our Constitutional >rights regarding freedom of expression >and that pertains to music and lyrics >and the freedom to exchange ideas >vs. censorship. >It also affects commerce and how the >music industry is affected. It’s all >somewhat interrelated. From what >I hear, some schools simply have >dropped music or music appreciation >classes just like many have dropped >art and art appreciation classes. >I don’t think drone school providers >even offer art or music classes on >their DVDs either >. >The state of the economy influences >how many people are going to show >up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat >relevant, but I keep looking for posts >that ask questions involving something >I know something about yet I see very >few questions being asked. Opinions >on gear are good to post about, >but happens to not be my cup of tea >even though some folks might need >other’s opinions to help them decide >on whether or not to buy a particular >instrument. >This is simply a request. Can we ease >up on the petty arguing about political >events and our political positions a little >and instead make more of an effort >to be relevant about guitar amps? >KABONG!~!~ >Agreed. >And if that don’t work just killfile the Librarian, Timepixdc and Mr. >Soul and watch all that OT bullshit disappear.

Don’t let your bias get in the way. Ms. Wheaton is a big source of OT postings. — Ken Wilson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> For those of you who read my posts, >> I would hope that you will realize ever since >> I promised not to initiate an off topic thread >> that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve >> sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. >> But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying >> to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan >> the topics, I’m seeing way too many political >> posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic >> posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when >> the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. >> Have we run out of relevant things >> to talk about amps? That’s what >> we’re here for, right? A little diversion >> here and there of off topic stuff is >> no big deal, but with more off topic >> posts than on topic is getting a bit >> boring even though I believe politics is partially >> related since it involves our Constitutional >> rights regarding freedom of expression >> and that pertains to music and lyrics >> and the freedom to exchange ideas >> vs. censorship. >> It also affects commerce and how the >> music industry is affected. It’s all >> somewhat interrelated. From what >> I hear, some schools simply have >> dropped music or music appreciation >> classes just like many have dropped >> art and art appreciation classes. >> I don’t think drone school providers >> even offer art or music classes on >> their DVDs either >> . >> The state of the economy influences >> how many people are going to show >> up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat >> relevant, but I keep looking for posts >> that ask questions involving something >> I know something about yet I see very >> few questions being asked. Opinions >> on gear are good to post about, >> but happens to not be my cup of tea >> even though some folks might need >> other’s opinions to help them decide >> on whether or not to buy a particular >> instrument. >> This is simply a request. Can we ease >> up on the petty arguing about political >> events and our political positions a little >> and instead make more of an effort >> to be relevant about guitar amps? >> KABONG!~!~ > You’re correct, Ed, it’s off the scale. > Personally, it has always seemed to me that if an individual played an > amped instrument, repaired or built amps, they were welcome to mix in OT > material at any ratio they pleased. All the more entertaining, as long > as they had the ability to go on topic and be equally informative. > When people who don’t know a E7#9 from a tube,resistor,capacitor to a > graphite nut enter the fray and delve deeply into shit only news anchors > could blabber on about, bitching, bitching, bitching, it’s WAY too much > noise from their post #1. > My purposefully ludicrous forays into human scat world have been 100% > with the latter in mind. > The Ans: ID & Filter Them. They wind up talking at each other and > players/techs can’t see it. It’d be perfect if they in turn filtered us, > as well. Parallel worlds AGA style mvm > Thanks Marc for seeing the whole picture. I have yet to plonk anyone > and even though some exchanges get boring. But I still get a real kick > out of your "purposefully ludicrous forays into human scat world" to > ricicule the neocronycons and their sycophants. Many of whom I suspect > are air guitarist fuddy duddies and post nothing but irrelevant drivel > anyway.

Right on.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For those of you who read my posts, >I would hope that you will realize ever since >I promised not to initiate an off topic thread >that I have yet to do it. Well, I might’ve >sneaked in one or two, but I don’t remember. >But that’s not to say I won’t indulge in replying >to an off topic thread. Lately though, as I scan >the topics, I’m seeing way too many political >posts and they seem to outnumber the on topic >posts 2 to 1. It wasn’t all that bad when >the ratio was 1 to 1 or much less. >Have we run out of relevant things >to talk about amps? That’s what >we’re here for, right? A little diversion >here and there of off topic stuff is >no big deal, but with more off topic >posts than on topic is getting a bit >boring even though I believe politics is partially >related since it involves our Constitutional >rights regarding freedom of expression >and that pertains to music and lyrics >and the freedom to exchange ideas >vs. censorship. >It also affects commerce and how the >music industry is affected. It’s all >somewhat interrelated. From what >I hear, some schools simply have >dropped music or music appreciation >classes just like many have dropped >art and art appreciation classes. >I don’t think drone school providers >even offer art or music classes on >their DVDs either >. >The state of the economy influences >how many people are going to show >up to your gigs. Yes, it’s all somewhat >relevant, but I keep looking for posts >that ask questions involving something >I know something about yet I see very >few questions being asked. Opinions >on gear are good to post about, >but happens to not be my cup of tea >even though some folks might need >other’s opinions to help them decide >on whether or not to buy a particular >instrument. >This is simply a request. Can we ease >up on the petty arguing about political >events and our political positions a little >and instead make more of an effort >to be relevant about guitar amps? >KABONG!~!~ > It was actually very quiet on the political front until Wheaton wiener > came back from wherever he was parading bad dance steps and started > posting again. > — > Ken Wilson

Come to think of it, that’s right. He posted just one on topic post about a guitar he bought and that was it. Then he proceeded to start all sorts of libelous threads from his nimrodcon propaganda sources, and when confronted with the facts, he tries to lie his way out of it while accusing everyone else of lying. Sheeks, what a weenie. And the place wasn’t all strewn about with posts of "you’re a liar – no, you’re the liar – no I’m not, you are…" for us to muck about in. One has to wonder if some right wing lackey group is paying him to disrupt the place with his pathetic lies knowing a small percentage of chumps will believe them and knowing the lies will never need to be retracted or corrected, but by just being out there means enough doubt will be created. A typical Rove ploy. Wheaton wiener. heh heh heh, good one! BTW, since you did not object to my proposal or allege any hypocrisy on my part, I would like to assume that you somewhat agree with me. Bu thank you most of all for not editing out relevant and pertinent parts of my text and replying to the remaining with an obvious intentional misinterpretating strawman ploy like your friend Devin tried to pull off.

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im going to agree with elvis again. election or not there is way to much political bullshit being posted on AGA. Although i wish mini hitler and his goons would vanish into the cornpatch, ranting on and on about it here does no good. the ratio is more like 10:1! why cant i talk about the good old repair shop days once again? The musicians would come in to hang out and kill time. my old mosrite was hanging (permanently) on the wall…. I think its time that political posts were blocked from this forum altogether. and even so i enjoyed the non censored un filtered whines. its kanda spoiled now, kinda distorted. Elvis, you got me wishin for the good old days, before fiberglass circuit boards and HDTV.

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