Amp Master

Question:

I play surf.  I am looking for a good tube amp with a great bright clean sound and lots of reverb.  I am trying to simplify my setup with a good amp because pedals are a bitch to deal with.  I have heard good things about the fender ‘65 twin reverb reissue, if anybody has any info about this amp or some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from you.     John Snipes         Life’s short……  Kick back and relax

Response:

> I play surf.  I am looking for a good tube amp with a great bright clean > sound and lots of reverb.  I am trying to simplify my setup with a good amp > because pedals are a bitch to deal with.  I have heard good things about the > fender ‘65 twin reverb reissue, if anybody has any info about this amp or > some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from you. >     John Snipes >         Life’s short……  Kick back and relax

Repeat the following 50 times:       The Twin Reverb IS Surf.       Surf IS a Twin Reverb. You said it yourself:  great bright clean sound w/ lots of reverb.  Ain’t nothing else like it.  Have you played one?  A no-brainer. I used to have a ‘67 and now periodically kick myself for selling it.  I can think of only a few downsides: 1)  The thing is HEAVY. With 40W Jensens, it weighed around 75lbs. Add a pair of heavier-duty speakers like JBL’s or EV’s and you’ll need a Sherpa to take with you on gigs. 2)  It is SO clean up to a very high volume (80 W), that you will not be able to get power-tube overdrive without causing injury (seriously!).  It ain’t no "buzz machine", that’s for sure.  There is a mod you can do to cut the power in half, but if you get a Twin, you should really use it for what it was intended…clean and crisp.  I never turned mine above 3 1/2. 3)  The vibrato isn’t as honey-smooth as the in brown/blonde era, but I guess you can’t have everything.  Still sounds purdy, tho. If you mic your amp to go thru the PA, you might be able to get away with a "lesser"  amp (like a Deluxe Reverb or Pro Rvb), and be able to push it into overdrive occasionally, should you desire. It’s really hard to recommend another line of amps, since only a Fender (or Fender clone) really can sound like a Fender.  Mike Schway           |  "Those who fail to learn from traditions

Response:

 Try a blackface Showman with the 1-15" JBL speaker and an outboard Fender Reverb unit. A compressor pedal, like the Boss CS 2 can be useful sometimes too. You won’t need anything else! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I play surf.  I am looking for a good tube amp with a great bright clean >sound and lots of reverb.  I am trying to simplify my setup with a good amp >because pedals are a bitch to deal with.  I have heard good things about the >fender ‘65 twin reverb reissue, if anybody has any info about this amp or >some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from you. >    John Snipes >        Life’s short……  Kick back and relax

Response:

>I play surf.  I am looking for a good tube amp with a great bright clean >sound and lots of reverb.  I am trying to simplify my setup with a good amp >because pedals are a bitch to deal with.  I have heard good things about the >fender ‘65 twin reverb reissue, if anybody has any info about this amp or >some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from

you. Lord Valve Speaketh: Get a Dual Showman Reverb head and a 215 cabinet.  You need mondo low-end for surf, and you won’t get that from the open-backed Twin Reverb. Lord Valve Visit my website:  http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/lord-valve/ Good tube FAQ for newbies.  Click the e-mail link and join my SPAM LIST; just put "SPAM ME" in the header and I’ll sign you up.  (If you only want a set of e-mail catalogs, put "CATS ONLY" in the header.)  I specialize in top quality HAND-SELECTED NOS and current-production vacuum tubes for guitar and bass amps.  Good prices, fast service.  TONS of gear and parts in stock…let’s DEAL!             NOW ACCEPTING VISA AND MASTERCARD!       "It ain’t braggin’, if ya can do it."  -  Babe Ruth

Response:

>> I play surf.  I am looking for a good tube amp with a great bright clean > sound and lots of reverb.  I am trying to simplify my setup with a good amp > because pedals are a bitch to deal with.  I have heard good things about the > fender ‘65 twin reverb reissue, if anybody has any info about this amp or > some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from you. >Repeat the following 50 times: >      The Twin Reverb IS Surf. >      Surf IS a Twin Reverb. >You said it yourself:  great bright clean sound w/ lots of reverb.  Ain’t >nothing else like it.  Have you played one?  A no-brainer.

SNIP >It’s really hard to >recommend another line of amps, since only a Fender (or Fender clone) >really can sound like a Fender.

If it’s clean that’ll go a long way toward surf-worthiness.  I’ve heard people say they had pretty good luck using 100w SS amps (I think I’ll stick with my Twin though).  Rather than get a RI though I’d recommend looking around for a good price on a SF Twin Reverb. As far as other lines of amps, people have said good things about Ampegs and old Sunn amps for surf. Good Luck, Scott McKnight

Response:

Blonde or brown (Dual) Showman + reverb tank Shooters, Mike

Response:

Iv never really heard ’surf’ live.  Iv heard bands do surf with Fender rigs.  But if ya check out the man himself, Dick Dale, he helped Leo build the set up and required speaker improvements.  Iv heard his recordings like ‘Tribal Thunder’. He goes with 2X15" JBLs , Dual Showman Head and the R tank.  Not to mention heavy strings.  He is the Man! as far as I can tell.  Ain’t no beaches up in here.    Peace Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Blonde or brown (Dual) Showman + reverb tank > Shooters, > Mike

Response:

Dick Dale is a hoot to see live and one hell of a nice guy when you meet him. He usually sticks around after his set to sign autographs and chat with fans. The rig you describe seems about right. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Iv never really heard ’surf’ live.  Iv heard bands do surf with Fender > rigs.  But if ya check out the man himself, Dick Dale, he helped Leo > build the set up and required speaker improvements.  Iv heard his > recordings like ‘Tribal Thunder’. > He goes with 2X15" JBLs , Dual Showman Head and the R tank.  Not to > mention heavy strings.  He is the Man! as far as I can tell.  Ain’t no > beaches up in here.    Peace Chris > Blonde or brown (Dual) Showman + reverb tank > Shooters, > Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Dick Dale is a hoot to see live and one hell of a nice guy when you meet him. > He usually sticks around after his set to sign autographs and chat with fans. > The rig you describe seems about right. > Mike > Iv never really heard ’surf’ live.  Iv heard bands do surf with Fender > rigs.  But if ya check out the man himself, Dick Dale, he helped Leo > build the set up and required speaker improvements.  Iv heard his > recordings like ‘Tribal Thunder’. > He goes with 2X15" JBLs , Dual Showman Head and the R tank.  Not to > mention heavy strings.  He is the Man! as far as I can tell.  Ain’t no > beaches up in here.    Peace Chris > > Blonde or brown (Dual) Showman + reverb tank > > Shooters, > > Mike

Brown Showman never existed instead in 1960 catalog Mike

Response:

> some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from you.

The Fender Dual Showman is probably the definitive surf amp.  It was specifically developed to survive Dick Dale’s performances. Cheers, Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dick Dale is a hoot to see live and one hell of a nice guy when you meet him. > He usually sticks around after his set to sign autographs and chat with fans. > The rig you describe seems about right. > Mike > > Iv never really heard ’surf’ live.  Iv heard bands do surf with Fender > > rigs.  But if ya check out the man himself, Dick Dale, he helped Leo > > build the set up and required speaker improvements.  Iv heard his > > recordings like ‘Tribal Thunder’. > > He goes with 2X15" JBLs , Dual Showman Head and the R tank.  Not to > > mention heavy strings.

Boy.  Them ain’t heavy strings.  I’ve been playin since 57 and my strings look like telephone poles to some of the young whipper snappers.  But the truth is, these were at one time medium gauge, e.g., low E 52 hi E 13. — Phil Roberts, Jr.

Response:

> > some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from you. > The Fender Dual Showman is probably the definitive surf amp.  It was > specifically developed to survive Dick Dale’s performances.

I’m pretty sure its what the Beach Boys were usin’ when my band performed with them back in 61. — Phil Roberts, Jr.

Response:

(snip) >Boy.  Them ain’t heavy strings.  I’ve been playin since 57 and my strings >look like telephone poles to some of the young whipper snappers.  But the >truth is, these were at one time medium gauge, e.g., low E 52 hi E 13. >– >Phil Roberts, Jr.

When Dick was out here in Denver a while back he claimed he was using a 16 on the high E…  Heavy enough for me <g> Mike

Response:

Maaaan, I wouldnt even have thought a .016 couldnt be stretched to high E. Ive been using 11-52, and I there are periods where im saying "man, this is like rubber, I can believe how I used to struggle with these", and there are times where I feel that im being held back due to the tension and I should go back down a guage. And I have small hands.. Does ANYONE really settle on a brand/guage? or is everyone else like me trying everything out there? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Boy.  Them ain’t heavy strings.  I’ve been playin since 57 and my strings >look like telephone poles to some of the young whipper snappers.  But the >truth is, these were at one time medium gauge, e.g., low E 52 hi E 13. >– >Phil Roberts, Jr. >When Dick was out here in Denver a while back he claimed he was using a 16 on >the high E…  Heavy enough for me <g> >Mike

Response:

In 61 I was checking out Corvettes from the 3rd grade window.  I had a crystal radio and an army shovel, that’s about it.  My dad had a Harmony with Black Diamonds.  On hard tails I play 11s  on soft tails 14 to 52.  I don’t have a soft tail around any more and that’s ok.  I read that Dick Dale was using pretty heavy strings.  Iv tried 16s to 58 and always played at 440 A.  Some times I feel like they hold me back  some times not.  I like the feel of a 58 , but not the sound. Currently I’m looking at going 12 to 48 or 52 on an ASAT.   In all actuality I aspire to play 9s or 10s ,but I just ain’t got a light touch.    Peace Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > some other amp that would be good for surf I would love to hear from you. > The Fender Dual Showman is probably the definitive surf amp.  It was > specifically developed to survive Dick Dale’s performances. > I’m pretty sure its what the Beach Boys were usin’ when my band performed > with them back in 61. > — > Phil Roberts, Jr.

Response:

> Does ANYONE really settle on a brand/guage? or is everyone else like me > trying everything out there?

I’ve pretty much settled on DR’s however I go back and forth between 10’s and 11’s. It mostly depends on the scake if the guitar I’m putting them on and how my tendonitis is doing. JD

Response:

> Does ANYONE really settle on a brand/guage? or is everyone else like me > trying everything out there?

I’ve settled on D’Addario 10’s for almost everything, my tele gets 11s when I get these rhythm-king urges. ROn

Response:

Buy a Boogie…Board and Amp

Response:

>Lord Valve Speaketh: >Get a Dual Showman Reverb head and a 215 cabinet.  You >need mondo low-end for surf, and you won’t get that >from the open-backed Twin Reverb

Skip Baker at Music Mart had one that I blackfaced and he had a sign that said "Surf’s Up".  However, he also had a Pro Reverb that had a really "wet" reverb.  And, of course, ya gotta have a geetar with single coil pickups

Response:

Y’know, I finally agree with Lord Valve, for once.  Dick Dale talks about his amp, which was a DS with the 15" Lansings in the closed back.  However, have you ever tried to lug one of those two-fifteen cabinets?  Get some casters. Johnny B.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Y’know, I finally agree with Lord Valve, for once.  Dick Dale talks about his > amp, which was a DS with the 15" Lansings in the closed back.  However, have > you ever tried to lug one of those two-fifteen cabinets?  Get some casters. > Johnny B.

Response:

Question:

Mr. Mulay: Contact me by private e-mail regarding offensive messages (including bestiality) sent to the Yahoo Guitar Amplifiers group, from a spoofed lordvalve2004 yahoo ID, which originated from your unique IP address. This message is left here because you have not responded to my private e-mail and I know that you read this forum. anything before I complete my contacts with Yahoo and Cox ISP, after which time I will post more info to this group, as I’m sure people are now curious about what appears to be your childish games. A copy of this was sent to Willie, as he may be interested to know that you portrayed him as somebody who has sex with dogs.

Response:

"Just the facts, Ma’am…" Best, Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Mr. Mulay: > Contact me by private e-mail regarding offensive messages > (including bestiality) sent to the Yahoo Guitar Amplifiers > group, from a spoofed lordvalve2004 yahoo ID, which > originated from your unique IP address. > This message is left here because you have not responded to > my private e-mail and I know that you read this forum. > anything before I complete my contacts with Yahoo and Cox > ISP, after which time I will post more info to this group, > as I’m sure people are now curious about what appears to be > your childish games. > A copy of this was sent to Willie, as he may be interested > to know that you portrayed him as somebody who has sex with > dogs.

Response:

As much as I don’t want anything to do with your forum, I’ve got to say that that’s a pretty weak minded thing that Marc did. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Mr. Mulay: >Contact me by private e-mail regarding offensive messages >(including bestiality) sent to the Yahoo Guitar Amplifiers >group, from a spoofed lordvalve2004 yahoo ID, which >originated from your unique IP address. >This message is left here because you have not responded to >my private e-mail and I know that you read this forum. >anything before I complete my contacts with Yahoo and Cox >ISP, after which time I will post more info to this group, >as I’m sure people are now curious about what appears to be >your childish games. >A copy of this was sent to Willie, as he may be interested >to know that you portrayed him as somebody who has sex with >dogs.

– Now you know why I used the qualifier "practically" –Bender

Response:

>Mr. Mulay: >Contact me by private e-mail regarding offensive messages

<SNIP> blah blah blah Considering your forum was created to counter the off topic posts in this forum I find you posting this off topic post here rather amusing. Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be involved?

Response:

> Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if > any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be > involved?

"PING MARC MULAY" indicates that it is a private message for Marc, because I can’t raise him by private e-mail. In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message!

Response:

>In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY >when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message!

Interesting statement

Response:

> >In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY >when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message! > Interesting statement

No offense intended, BTW.

Response:

>> Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if > any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be > involved? >"PING MARC MULAY" indicates that it is a private message for Marc, because >I can’t raise him by private e-mail.

Well, it’s a good thing you didn’t post it at aga since it was a private message! >In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY >when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message!

Yep. Actually, I doubt that you need to notify Marc before taking any action anyhow.   You don’t even owe him the courtesy actually. He agreed to the terms of using your forum, but there was an almost immediate breach in trust.  Right?  So hang the SOB.  Time to be a moderator, even if it kills your utopia. Pete — Now you know why I used the qualifier "practically" –Bender

Response:

Can we see that post? I for one would like to see it here on AGA. Kabong!~!~!~!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mr. Mulay: > Contact me by private e-mail regarding offensive messages > (including bestiality) sent to the Yahoo Guitar Amplifiers > group, from a spoofed lordvalve2004 yahoo ID, which > originated from your unique IP address. > This message is left here because you have not responded to > my private e-mail and I know that you read this forum. > anything before I complete my contacts with Yahoo and Cox > ISP, after which time I will post more info to this group, > as I’m sure people are now curious about what appears to be > your childish games. > A copy of this was sent to Willie, as he may be interested > to know that you portrayed him as somebody who has sex with > dogs.

Response:

>As much as I don’t want anything to do with your forum, I’ve got to >say that that’s a pretty weak minded thing that Marc did. >Pete

You’re kidding right?  That’s one of the reasons he’s been in my killfile for quite a while.  I’d say it’s pretty typical and right in line with his mentality. Lostpup198 "The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be controlled, and those who have no such desire." — Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

Response:

>> Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if > any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be > involved? >"PING MARC MULAY" indicates that it is a private message for Marc, because >I can’t raise him by private e-mail. >In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY >when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message!

Ping indicates that you want him to post in news group, not that it’s a private message.  If it were a private message, you wouldn’t post it in a news group. At least, I would hope that you wouldn’t … Lostpup198 "The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be controlled, and those who have no such desire." — Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Mr. Mulay: >Contact me by private e-mail regarding offensive messages >(including bestiality) sent to the Yahoo Guitar Amplifiers >group, from a spoofed lordvalve2004 yahoo ID, which >originated from your unique IP address. >This message is left here because you have not responded to >my private e-mail and I know that you read this forum. >anything before I complete my contacts with Yahoo and Cox >ISP, after which time I will post more info to this group, >as I’m sure people are now curious about what appears to be >your childish games. >A copy of this was sent to Willie, as he may be interested >to know that you portrayed him as somebody who has sex with >dogs.

Just TOS the fucker … Lostpup198 "The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be controlled, and those who have no such desire." — Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

Response:

>"PING MARC MULAY" indicates that it is a private message for Marc

I’m afraid this is a public forum and anything posted here is up for grabs. >In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY >when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message!

In the words of Eric Cartman "What incredible irony". Peter email – alerichatbellsouthdotnet

Response:

>> As much as I don’t want anything to do with your forum, I’ve got to > say that that’s a pretty weak minded thing that Marc did. >Who could be surprised?  That’s pretty much the same kind of entry he made >to this group.  The guy’s got NO class whatsoever, let’s face it. >~kp

I wasn’t surprised at all.  I *was* wondering who’d be the one to do something like that.  I can’t say I guessed that Marc Mulay would be the first. In all actuality, Jim probably needed a dose of what it’s like to actually moderate someone who really *does* need moderating.   I’m not saying that a moderator is needed here at aga, but forums are a different situation. Pete — Now you know why I used the qualifier "practically" –Bender

Response:

>In the words of Eric Cartman "What incredible irony". >Peter

Cartman tends to have things figured out.  To some extent.   He’s definitely got a grasp on how to process each situation. Pete — Now you know why I used the qualifier "practically" –Bender

Response:

> Can we see that post? > I for one would like to see it here on AGA. > Kabong!~!~!~!

You’ll have to get Marc to post it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if >> any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be >> involved? >"PING MARC MULAY" indicates that it is a private message for Marc, because >I can’t raise him by private e-mail. >In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY >when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message! > Ping indicates that you want him to post in news group, not that it’s a private > message.  If it were a private message, you wouldn’t post it in a news group. > At least, I would hope that you wouldn’t …

Technically, isn’t "ping" when a computer contacts another and wants an immediate response?  When I "ping" somebody, I’m looking for an immediate response, regardless of forum.  But  what I was trying to say is that from the subject, you could easily see that it was a message for Marc, and not amp related.

Response:

> In all actuality, Jim probably needed a dose of what it’s like to > actually moderate someone who really *does* need moderating.   I’m not > saying that a moderator is needed here at aga, but forums are a > different situation.

Oh, believe me.  I fully expected somebody to test the system.  It works. Locating his IP was just icing.

Response:

> Considering your forum was created to counter the off topic posts in > this forum I find you posting this off topic post here rather amusing. > Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if > any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be > involved?

In the sense of some folks going out of their way to trash this group, and now a new discussion forum, it is sort of on topic.  And it’s handy to have this sort of thing on file the next time somebody claims to be all innocent of that sort of screwball behavior.

Response:

> A weak minded action from a weak minded individual. > No surprise there…

Nope, not surprised in the least, unless it’s to be surprised that a couple of other turd-flingers didn’t beat him to it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if > >> any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be > >> involved? > >"PING MARC MULAY" indicates that it is a private message for Marc, because > >I can’t raise him by private e-mail. > >In the words of another AGA poster:  "No likee, no clickee" ESPECIALLY > >when it’s so obvious that it’s not an amp message! > Ping indicates that you want him to post in news group, not that it’s a >private > message.  If it were a private message, you wouldn’t post it in a news >group. > At least, I would hope that you wouldn’t … >Technically, isn’t "ping" when a computer contacts another and wants an >immediate >response?  When I "ping" somebody, I’m looking for an immediate response, >regardless of forum.  But  what I was trying to say is that from the subject, >you >could easily see that it was a message for Marc, and not amp related.

In this context, PING= Post In News Group Lostpup198 "The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be controlled, and those who have no such desire." — Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

Response:

>> Just deal with this privately with Marc and wait for his repsonse if > any. If he doesn’t respond – oh well – why does AGA need to be > involved? >Because AGA is involved with Mark Mullet, of course! >~kp

Actually, I think the reverse is true.  There is a lot of AGA that has him in their killfile, and therefore doesn’t *want* to be involved with him. Lostpup198 "The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be controlled, and those who have no such desire." — Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

Response:

> Can we see that post? > I for one would like to see it here on AGA. > Kabong!~!~!~! > You’ll have to get Marc to post it.

How do you know it was him in the first place? And since this group is not moderated, what’s wrong with posting the post in question here to let the rest of us can see if we can recognize the style or content and determine who wrote it? AFAIK, you are making this shit up. I have yet to see any evidence of the post, much less who the author is. You’re an attorney, right? Let’s see what you are referring to. Otherwise if I was in Marc’s position I would consider that libel for you to allege he posted such a thing without evidence. Kabong!~!~!~! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

<< Can we see that post? I for one would like to see it here on AGA. Kabong!~!~!~! >> Why, you’re too busy posting useless crap on this forum to have any time to read it.

Response:

Funny, I tired to register on the Yahoo forum, looks like someone already has the user name RoccaforteAmps.

Response:

Question:

I discovered that I had accidentily mixed up two resistors in my DC30 amp. From each of the leads after the inverter tube, there is a 220K resistor that is grounded. There are also four 1,5K resistors for lug nr. 2 on the output tubes (EL-84). I had accidently connected one of the 220K resistors to the grid of one of the tubes, while the 1,5K that was supposed to be there, was grounded in stead. I re-soldered them, but the 1,5K seems to be dead.. I checked the other 1,5K resistors too, and they also seem dead. The 220K was still all right. The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? And does it seem natural that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors? Tommy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I discovered that I had accidentily mixed up two resistors in my DC30 amp. > From each of the leads after the inverter tube, there is a 220K resistor > that is grounded. There are also four 1,5K resistors for lug nr. 2 on the > output tubes (EL-84). > I had accidently connected one of the 220K resistors to the grid of one of > the tubes, while the 1,5K that was supposed to be there, was grounded in > stead. > I re-soldered them, but the 1,5K seems to be dead.. I checked the other 1,5K > resistors too, and they also seem dead. The 220K was still all right. > The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? And does it seem natural > that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors? > Tommy

This may seem obvious, but did you lift at least one leg out of circuit when measuring?  You need to do this.  If you measure with both legs in circuit, sometimes there is too much other stuff and you can’t get an accurate reading.  I agree that the bigger ones should be OK. Phil

Response:

> The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? And does it seem natural > that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors?

Turns out the resistors are ok after all….and now that the resistors are in their right place, the amp sounds 10 times better, and all the hum is gone too!!!! Tommy

Response:

> This may seem obvious, but did you lift at least one leg out of circuit when > measuring?  You need to do this.  If you measure with both legs in circuit, > sometimes there is too much other stuff and you can’t get an accurate > reading.  I agree that the bigger ones should be OK.

Yes, I lifted one leg.. the problem was that my multimeter stood on 2000K while measuring the 1,5K resistor..so that’s why I got no reading.. the resistors were all ok… Tommy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? And does it seem > natural >that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors? > Turns out the resistors are ok after all….and now that the resistors are > in their right place, the amp sounds 10 times better, and all the hum is > gone too!!!! > Tommy

Hi, If you want to experiment replace those 220K resistors with ~160K ones and try. You may like the result better. Tony

Response:

>I discovered that I had accidentily mixed up two resistors in my DC30 amp.

That’s quite a discovery… >From each of the leads after the inverter tube, there is a 220K resistor >that is grounded. There are also four 1,5K resistors for lug nr. 2 on the >output tubes (EL-84). >I had accidently connected one of the 220K resistors to the grid of one of >the tubes, while the 1,5K that was supposed to be there, was grounded in >stead.

What the phuq are you doing in there? Why are you playing musical resistors? >I re-soldered them, but the 1,5K seems to be dead.. I checked the other 1,5K >resistors too, and they also seem dead. The 220K was still all right.

ummmm . . . . I’ll bite…. how do you know they are dead? What kind of death did they suffer? Do they exhibit any rigor mortis? >The amp still work…does that seem strange or not?

well, perhaps you could re-name the resistors "Lazarus"… > And does it seem natural >that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors?

these is no harm in the reverse connection, just a drastic lowering of the amps parameters concerning gain… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tommy

Response:

>>I discovered that I had accidentily mixed up two resistors in my DC30 amp. >That’s quite a discovery…

I dunno Bob, any homebrew without at least one admitted wiring error is suspect. Guess now I’ll hear from all the people who NEVER make mistakes in a build. Yeah, right. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From each of the leads after the inverter tube, there is a 220K resistor >that is grounded. There are also four 1,5K resistors for lug nr. 2 on the >output tubes (EL-84). >I had accidently connected one of the 220K resistors to the grid of one of >the tubes, while the 1,5K that was supposed to be there, was grounded in >stead. >What the phuq are you doing in there? Why are you playing musical resistors? >I re-soldered them, but the 1,5K seems to be dead.. I checked the other 1,5K >resistors too, and they also seem dead. The 220K was still all right. >ummmm . . . . I’ll bite…. how do you know they are dead? What kind of death did they suffer? Do they exhibit any rigor >mortis? >The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? >well, perhaps you could re-name the resistors "Lazarus"… > And does it seem natural >that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors? >these is no harm in the reverse connection, just a drastic lowering of the amps parameters concerning gain…

I’m sure the driver/PI tube really hated driving that load while it lasted. Ron

Response:

>> The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? And does it seem >natural > that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors? >Turns out the resistors are ok after all….and now that the resistors are >in their right place, the amp sounds 10 times better, and all the hum is >gone too!!!!

Cool, you scared me there, if the 1.5Ks were open that amp couldn’t have made a sound. Bet it’s got a little louder too. You have tortured the poor driver tube with that mistake, but that’s about all. Ron

Response:

> I dunno Bob, any homebrew without at least one admitted > wiring error is suspect. > Guess now I’ll hear from all the people who NEVER make > mistakes in a build. Yeah, right.

Does it count as a mistake if the finished product is correct and shows no burn marks?

Response:

> I dunno Bob, any homebrew without at least one admitted > wiring error is suspect. > Guess now I’ll hear from all the people who NEVER make > mistakes in a build. Yeah, right. > Does it count as a mistake if the finished product is correct and > shows no burn marks?

That depends on what the little guy inside your head holding the pitch fork says ;~} and whether the little guy with the halo is present.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I discovered that I had accidentily mixed up two resistors in my DC30 amp. >That’s quite a discovery… >I dunno Bob, any homebrew without at least one admitted wiring error is suspect. >Guess now I’ll hear from all the people who NEVER make mistakes in a build. >Yeah, right. >>From each of the leads after the inverter tube, there is a 220K resistor >>that is grounded. There are also four 1,5K resistors for lug nr. 2 on the >>output tubes (EL-84). >>I had accidently connected one of the 220K resistors to the grid of one of >>the tubes, while the 1,5K that was supposed to be there, was grounded in >>stead. >What the phuq are you doing in there? Why are you playing musical resistors? >>I re-soldered them, but the 1,5K seems to be dead.. I checked the other 1,5K >>resistors too, and they also seem dead. The 220K was still all right. >ummmm . . . . I’ll bite…. how do you know they are dead? What kind of death did they >suffer? Do they exhibit any rigor >mortis? >>The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? >well, perhaps you could re-name the resistors "Lazarus"… >> And does it seem natural >>that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors? >these is no harm in the reverse connection, just a drastic lowering of the amps parameters >concerning gain… >I’m sure the driver/PI tube really hated driving that load while it lasted. >Ron

I homebrewed a while and some of the errors I made in the circuit I liked better so I kept them!

Response:

>>>I discovered that I had accidentily mixed up two resistors in my DC30 amp. >That’s quite a discovery… >I dunno Bob, any homebrew without at least one admitted wiring error is suspect. >Guess now I’ll hear from all the people who NEVER make mistakes in a build. >Yeah, right.

I built 2 amps in December, one worked perfectly first time… good news! The other one… man what a nightmare!! leaky new coupling cap… 2 bad pots… (one I broke) a piece of microphonic shielded wire, volume pot to post-amp… teach me to use cheap wire… intermittent oscillation in the high gain pre amp, still tracking it down, removed all tubes before the volume control, amp is dead quiet and stable, but turn up the volume and HUMMMM !! Still something hiding in the pre amp… Going to fix it up as a standard amp first and then add the high gain stages in later…. going back to the beginning and start looking at the power supply caps and lead dress… later!!  This will be the first and last high gain buzz box I ever build!!   Drwow was right!

Response:

> What the phuq are you doing in there? Why are you playing musical

resistors? What? I made the amp, that’s why I’m in there….. Tommy

Response:

>> What the phuq are you doing in there? Why are you playing musical >resistors? >What? I made the amp, that’s why I’m in there….. >Tommy

You originally said "your DC30 amp"… If you made it, it ain’t a DC30!!  Its a copy or a clone… an imitation… a doppleganger….  il n’est pas un original! anyway, I guess it’s a good idea to work in an amp that you made… thanks for the explanation!

Response:

> You originally said "your DC30 amp"… If you made it, it ain’t a DC30!!

Its a copy or a clone… an imitation… a > doppleganger….  il n’est pas un original!

Well, I can call my amp whatever I want, can’t I ? Tommy

Response:

>> You originally said "your DC30 amp"… If you made it, it ain’t a DC30!! >Its a copy or a clone… an imitation… a > doppleganger….  il n’est pas un original! >Well, I can call my amp whatever I want, can’t I ? >Tommy

Not if you want me to know what you’re talking about!! anyway, good luck!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>I discovered that I had accidentily mixed up two resistors in my DC30 amp. >>That’s quite a discovery… >I dunno Bob, any homebrew without at least one admitted wiring error is suspect. >Guess now I’ll hear from all the people who NEVER make mistakes in a build. >Yeah, right. >I built 2 amps in December, one worked perfectly first time… good news! The other one… man what a nightmare!! >leaky new coupling cap… >2 bad pots… (one I broke) >a piece of microphonic shielded wire, volume pot to post-amp… teach me to use cheap wire… >intermittent oscillation in the high gain pre amp, still tracking it down, removed all tubes before the volume control, >amp is dead quiet and stable, but turn up the volume and HUMMMM !! Still something hiding in the pre amp… Going to fix >it up as a standard amp first and then add the high gain stages in later…. going back to the beginning and start >looking at the power supply caps and lead dress… later!!  This will be the first and last high gain buzz box I ever >build!!   Drwow was right!

Doing high-gain tubes right is a trick all it’s own. Good luck with ‘er, sounds like you’re long due for some. Ron

Response:

>> I dunno Bob, any homebrew without at least one admitted > wiring error is suspect. > Guess now I’ll hear from all the people who NEVER make > mistakes in a build. Yeah, right. >Does it count as a mistake if the finished product is correct and >shows no burn marks?

Doesn’t that just mean it isn’t done yet. Even the pro’s make mistakes in a build. The difference is how many and how perfectly they’re corrected. A well planned build is easy to work on and correct and has fewer opportunities for error in the first place. Ron

Response:

> Not if you want me to know what you’re talking about!!

I agree. I didn’t say clone, because I have posted about this amp before, and forgot to mention it again. Tommy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The amp still work…does that seem strange or not? And does it seem > natural >that the 1,5K resistors would blow, after such a mix-up of the resistors? > Turns out the resistors are ok after all….and now that the resistors are > in their right place, the amp sounds 10 times better, and all the hum is > gone too!!!! > Tommy

Hi, To blow a resistor, it should be exposed to VERY high voltage/current beyond the rating of it. Usually resistors are 1/4 or 1/2 Watts ones. In that circuit, neither is involved. Tony

Response:

Question:

Hi I’m sorry if I’m being impatient reposting a few of my questions but i thought starting it in a new thread might get some responses to some of my questions that were left unanswered, so here we go… Could someone please explain ‘flying leads to the control pots’ which has been mentioned as being on the pre-85 models of jcm 800 How do you find the year of the model?  If i were to install a mid control for the clean channel, where would it go on the head? What are the actual differences in the older two channel models that made them have a cleaner rhythm channel? I’ve been told a bypass of the second gain stage will give this clean sound but are there any other differences between pre/post-84 or whenever they changed it? What would happen if i bought the100watt version and pulled two tubes. I know that this will effectively halve the wattage, but what i’d like to know what effect this would have on the remaining two tubes compared to just having a 50 watt version.  Does it make the tubes work even harder? or does it need to be rebiased to adjust for the different number of tubes? I’ve been thinking of getting the 50 watt model over getting the 100watt model because i don’t really need so much power, but when running the amp at about half volume (i.e. 4-6 on the master)  do the two sound that much different in volume? what difference in wattage do 6550’s make as opposed to el34’s if any? sorry bout all the questions but im just curious and really want to make sure I choose the best model i can get If anyone can help with these i would be extremely grateful Regards Jacob Pyke

Response:

>What are the actual differences in the older two channel models that made

them have a cleaner rhythm channel?< i’ve been playing a 50 watt jcm800 combo (the newer version with the pots connected to the circuit board) for years. the clean channel is plenty clean and very usable with a dynacomp. the lead channel sounds great too..but i never turn the gain knob up past 5.

Response:

: Could someone please explain ‘flying leads to the control pots’ which has : been mentioned as being on the pre-85 models of jcm 800 Hi Jacob, Flying leads should refer to the actual physical mounting of the front panel controls in the amplifier.  The controls are bolted to the front panel and wires are solder to each solder lug, then routed to the pc board connections or main parts layed out in what’s known as the point to point type. Not specific to a year, brand or model of amplifier… through the years many different combinations of both construction methods have been done. The switch from flying leads to pc board direct was done to cut down on labor and or update the type of parts used. Many debate those reasons as being so cost effective in the long term. The pc board mounting method often refers to the controls soldered directly to the pc board (less the wire leads), then the assembly bolted to the front panel. Pure at heart types often say that the pc board method might sound different or vibrate connections loose when you beat the amplifier up real bad. I’m doing regular shows with Marshalls amplifiers in service and I have never had a pc board mounted control "pot" vibrate loose from a solder connection. Believe me, I beat the poor amps up each time I pack them in for a show. Unless someone can demonstrat a clear difference in mounting parts point to point, both amplifier construction methods should produce very similar sounds. : How do you find the year of the model? Get out the amplifier hype books, do the home work… then pay way more than it’s worth for an amplifier sold on Ebay. Otherwise, look around some of the specialty vintage music stores. If you live out here near SF, I’d tell you some of my hot spots for good amps. : If i were to install a mid control for the clean channel, where would it go : on the head? In the head probably… but why..?  Many people dive in to hack a head without knowing what the basic as-built amplifier tone is. Chances are things like guitar pickup height and a small foot pedal eq unit would give you similar results without the mod. Most any Marshall amplifier you can buy is going to be quite the player from the get-go… : What are the actual differences in the older two channel models that made : them have a cleaner rhythm channel? I’ve been told a bypass of the second : gain stage will give this clean sound but are there any other differences : between pre/post-84 or whenever they changed it? I’m not sure which model head your talking about Jacob… Hard to answer that one on the fly… : What would happen if i bought the100watt version and pulled two tubes. I : know that this will effectively halve the wattage, but what i’d like to know : what effect this would have on the remaining two tubes compared to just : having a 50 watt version.  Does it make the tubes work even harder? or does : it need to be rebiased to adjust for the different number of tubes? The two tubes in service would wear out at a faster rate than the stored tubes. Unless your playing really large clubs/shows without a PA system, the 100 watt head will hurt your and everyone else’s ears. I have both, run both… most of the time my 100 watt heads are turned way down or into a power soak (or similar). : I’ve been thinking of getting the 50 watt model over getting the 100watt : model because i don’t really need so much power, but when running the amp at : about half volume (i.e. 4-6 on the master)  do the two sound that much : different in volume? The 50 watt model is a good choice. I learned to really use the amplifiers dynamics with the 50 watt head. When your using a 50 watt head, you can get a pretty good handle on the edge where the tubes start to breakup, without killing your ears. Then you learn to use the guitar pickup controls to ride the edge for some songs.  It’s a skill hard to learn any other way. : what difference in wattage do 6550’s make as opposed to el34’s if any? The 6550’s are cleaner to a higher volume level.  If you play all types of music… think about the 6550’s.  If your stuck in a distortion all the time mode, you’ll be happier with teh EL-34 breakup at lower volume levels. : sorry bout all the questions but im just curious and really want to make : sure I choose the best model i can get : If anyone can help with these i would be extremely grateful : Regards : Jacob Pyke Hope that helps some Jacob… cheers skipp

Response:

> Hi I’m sorry if I’m being impatient reposting a few of my questions but i > thought starting it in a new thread might get some responses to some of my > questions that were left unanswered, so here we go… > Could someone please explain ‘flying leads to the control pots’ which has > been mentioned as being on the pre-85 models of jcm 800

Another poster explained the physical difference.  The advantage is that flying leads are more repair friendly and more reliable. > How do you find the year of the model?

Look for the letter in the serial number.  I have "M", and that desigates 1980. "N" would be ‘81, "0" is ‘82, "P" is ‘83… >  If i were to install a mid control for the clean channel, where would it go > on > the head?

Dunno.  Unused input jack? > What are the actual differences in the older two channel models that made > them have a cleaner rhythm channel? I’ve been told a bypass of the second > gain stage will give this clean sound but are there any other differences > between pre/post-84 or whenever they changed it? > What would happen if i bought the100watt version and pulled two tubes. I > know that this will effectively halve the wattage, but what i’d like to know > what effect this would have on the remaining two tubes compared to just > having a 50 watt version.  Does it make the tubes work even harder? or does > it need to be rebiased to adjust for the different number of tubes?

All you need to worry about is to compensate by adjusting the impedance matching switch. > I’ve been thinking of getting the 50 watt model over getting the 100watt > model because i don’t really need so much power, but when running the amp at > about half volume (i.e. 4-6 on the master)  do the two sound that much > different in volume?

A 50 W Marshall is more than 1/2 as loud as a 100W.  It is still WAY loud.  It all depends on how much total volume and how much headroom you need. > what difference in wattage do 6550’s make as opposed to el34’s if any?

Good GE 6550A’s will give MUCH more headroom and more total power. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sorry bout all the questions but im just curious and really want to make > sure I choose the best model i can get > If anyone can help with these i would be extremely grateful > Regards > Jacob Pyke

Response:

>? I’ve been told a bypass of the second

gain stage will give this clean sound but are there any other differences between pre/post-84 or whenever they changed it?<< Huge differences.  The preamps for both the lead and the clean channels of the two amps are nothing alike.  Less gain stages for the clean channel made a cathode follower for the lead channel possible on the early models.  A cathode follower is important for getting a genuine Marshall sound.  That’s why the later models don’t really sound very Marshally at all.

Response:

>What are the actual differences in the older two channel models that made

them have a cleaner rhythm channel?< Fewer gain stages.

Response:

Skipp, thankyou for the detailed explanation on the differences on point to point and circuit board designs, i guess the only way to tell if it vibrates at high volume is to do just that, try it out like that. All of your advice is much appreciated, but i have a couple questions more, sorry to nag but i’m still new to most of this. anyways, heres goes: Is it possible to tell if it is a point to point or circuit board model with out pulling apart the head? because i don’t think a person from the trading post would appreciate me pulling there amp apart just like that. and that is pretty much the only place i will be able to get this amp from at a reasonable price as i live in melbourne, australia so there aren’t that many stores selling jcm 800’s. my second question is, how effective is the effects loop? (sorry bout the pun there) What i mean sort of is, is the effects loop good enough to use with most effects or is it limited to certain effects.  Because if it wouldn’t be good for say putting a delay in the loop or such effects then i’d probably be better off with the single channel model and setting it in front of the amp but after an overdrive pedal with the amp set clean. By all means feel free to correct me if there is a better way as I have no means of testing this theory as i don’t currently own a delay pedal but am considering it in future once i get the amp. Anyways, sorry for rambling so much, if you’ve bothered reading all this and could help, i’d be tres thankful Regards Jacob Pyke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : Could someone please explain ‘flying leads to the control pots’ which has > : been mentioned as being on the pre-85 models of jcm 800 > Hi Jacob, > Flying leads should refer to the actual physical mounting of the front > panel controls in the amplifier.  The controls are bolted to the front > panel and wires are solder to each solder lug, then routed to the pc board > connections or main parts layed out in what’s known as the point to point > type. Not specific to a year, brand or model of amplifier… through > the years many different combinations of both construction methods have > been done. The switch from flying leads to pc board direct was done to cut > down on labor and or update the type of parts used. Many debate those > reasons as being so cost effective in the long term. > The pc board mounting method often refers to the controls soldered > directly to the pc board (less the wire leads), then the assembly bolted > to the front panel. Pure at heart types often say that the pc board method > might sound different or vibrate connections loose when you beat the > amplifier up real bad. I’m doing regular shows with Marshalls amplifiers > in service and I have never had a pc board mounted control "pot" vibrate > loose from a solder connection. Believe me, I beat the poor amps up each > time I pack them in for a show. > Unless someone can demonstrat a clear difference in mounting parts point > to point, both amplifier construction methods should produce very similar > sounds. > : How do you find the year of the model? > Get out the amplifier hype books, do the home work… then pay way more > than it’s worth for an amplifier sold on Ebay. Otherwise, look around some > of the specialty vintage music stores. If you live out here near SF, I’d > tell you some of my hot spots for good amps. > : If i were to install a mid control for the clean channel, where would it go > : on the head? > In the head probably… but why..?  Many people dive in to hack a head > without knowing what the basic as-built amplifier tone is. Chances are > things like guitar pickup height and a small foot pedal eq unit would give > you similar results without the mod. Most any Marshall amplifier you can > buy is going to be quite the player from the get-go… > : What are the actual differences in the older two channel models that made > : them have a cleaner rhythm channel? I’ve been told a bypass of the second > : gain stage will give this clean sound but are there any other differences > : between pre/post-84 or whenever they changed it? > I’m not sure which model head your talking about Jacob… Hard to answer > that one on the fly… > : What would happen if i bought the100watt version and pulled two tubes. I > : know that this will effectively halve the wattage, but what i’d like to know > : what effect this would have on the remaining two tubes compared to just > : having a 50 watt version.  Does it make the tubes work even harder? or does > : it need to be rebiased to adjust for the different number of tubes? > The two tubes in service would wear out at a faster rate than the stored > tubes. Unless your playing really large clubs/shows without a PA system, > the 100 watt head will hurt your and everyone else’s ears. I have both, > run both… most of the time my 100 watt heads are turned way down or into > a power soak (or similar). > : I’ve been thinking of getting the 50 watt model over getting the 100watt > : model because i don’t really need so much power, but when running the amp at > : about half volume (i.e. 4-6 on the master)  do the two sound that much > : different in volume? > The 50 watt model is a good choice. I learned to really use the amplifiers > dynamics with the 50 watt head. When your using a 50 watt head, you can > get a pretty good handle on the edge where the tubes start to breakup, > without killing your ears. Then you learn to use the guitar pickup > controls to ride the edge for some songs.  It’s a skill hard to learn any > other way. > : what difference in wattage do 6550’s make as opposed to el34’s if any? > The 6550’s are cleaner to a higher volume level.  If you play all types of > music… think about the 6550’s.  If your stuck in a distortion all the > time mode, you’ll be happier with teh EL-34 breakup at lower volume > levels. > : sorry bout all the questions but im just curious and really want to make > : sure I choose the best model i can get > : If anyone can help with these i would be extremely grateful > : Regards > : Jacob Pyke > Hope that helps some Jacob… > cheers > skipp

Response:

So in your opinion the older models are overall much better? Also what exactly does a cathode follower do in regards to shaping the sound? Thanks again. Jacob Pyke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->? I’ve been told a bypass of the second > gain stage will give this clean sound but are there any other differences > between pre/post-84 or whenever they changed it?<< > Huge differences.  The preamps for both the lead and the clean channels of > the two amps are nothing alike.  Less gain stages for the clean channel made > a cathode follower for the lead channel possible on the early models.  A > cathode follower is important for getting a genuine Marshall sound. That’s > why the later models don’t really sound very Marshally at all.

Response:

Thankyou very much for explaining how to identify the year of the model, that will be very useful for me in choosing the one i want. Also i will be sticking with the 50watt version as from all i’ve been told its plenty for my needs

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi I’m sorry if I’m being impatient reposting a few of my questions but i > thought starting it in a new thread might get some responses to some of my > questions that were left unanswered, so here we go… > Could someone please explain ‘flying leads to the control pots’ which has > been mentioned as being on the pre-85 models of jcm 800 > Another poster explained the physical difference.  The advantage is that flying > leads are more repair friendly and more reliable. > How do you find the year of the model? > Look for the letter in the serial number.  I have "M", and that desigates 1980. > "N" would be ‘81, "0" is ‘82, "P" is ‘83… >  If i were to install a mid control for the clean channel, where would it go > on > the head? > Dunno.  Unused input jack? > What are the actual differences in the older two channel models that made > them have a cleaner rhythm channel? I’ve been told a bypass of the second > gain stage will give this clean sound but are there any other differences > between pre/post-84 or whenever they changed it? > What would happen if i bought the100watt version and pulled two tubes. I > know that this will effectively halve the wattage, but what i’d like to know > what effect this would have on the remaining two tubes compared to just > having a 50 watt version.  Does it make the tubes work even harder? or does > it need to be rebiased to adjust for the different number of tubes? > All you need to worry about is to compensate by adjusting the impedance matching > switch. > I’ve been thinking of getting the 50 watt model over getting the 100watt > model because i don’t really need so much power, but when running the amp at > about half volume (i.e. 4-6 on the master)  do the two sound that much > different in volume? > A 50 W Marshall is more than 1/2 as loud as a 100W.  It is still WAY loud. It > all depends on how much total volume and how much headroom you need. > what difference in wattage do 6550’s make as opposed to el34’s if any? > Good GE 6550A’s will give MUCH more headroom and more total power. > sorry bout all the questions but im just curious and really want to make > sure I choose the best model i can get > If anyone can help with these i would be extremely grateful > Regards > Jacob Pyke

Response:

>>>Is it possible to tell if it is a point to point or circuit board model

with out pulling apart the head? because i don’t think a person from the trading post would appreciate me pulling there amp apart just like that. and that is pretty much the only place i will be able to get this amp from at a reasonable price as i live in melbourne, australia so there aren’t that many stores selling jcm 800’s.<<< No need to worry since none of the JCM-800’s produced were point to point.

Response:

>>>my second question is, how effective is the effects loop? (sorry bout the

pun there) What i mean sort of is, is the effects loop good enough to use with most effects or is it limited to certain effects.<<< I’ve never had any problems with the effects loop on a JCM-800 2205/2210 not working well with any effects.

Response:

Jacob, The point-to-point issue is a minor one.  Flying leads just make it easier to replace pots without having to take the pc board loose.  My 2205 is 16 years old and I have not yet worn out the pots or broken any of them.  The 2205 is a rugged amp.  My kids have knocked mine off of the 4X12 cabinet (Celestion G12M-70’s) on a few occasions without doing any damage to the amp. The effects loop is good.  I run an Alesis Wedge through mine and it sounds great. The 2205, with high quality tubes, is a great amp.  With anything other than high quality tubes, it sucks.  This is a *cost of operation* issue but is a minor issue in the whole scheme.  No amp is perfect for every application, but the 2205 is versatile. My advice is just buy it.  Plan on spending $170 for all new tubes.  I would consider this in your purchase price. Thanks, Greg

Response:

> The 2205, with high quality tubes, is a great amp.  With anything other > than > high quality tubes, it sucks.  This is a *cost of operation* issue but is > a > minor issue in the whole scheme.

This must be the case with any tube amp, wouldn’t you say? – KP

Response:

1. marshalls made in 83 and pryor are wired with the pots seperate from the PCB. after 83 they use pots mounted to the board. Easier to manufacture. 2. If you remove 2 tubes from a 100w, Take out the outside ones and set you impedeance switch to 1/2 the load. i.e. 16 ohm cab 8 ohm on amp.3 6550 tubes take more current the el34s before they distort. they will produce a bassier sound and will not sound as brittle as some EL34s can. Cant remember all your questions but i hope this helps.Mark Fisher

Response:

Thanks for that pointer, so i guess i’ll be just looking for one with flying leads to make it more serviceable.  Thanks again for all your responses Tonefactor

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Is it possible to tell if it is a point to point or circuit board model > with > out pulling apart the head? because i don’t think a person from the trading > post would appreciate me pulling there amp apart just like that. and that is > pretty much the only place i will be able to get this amp from at a > reasonable price as i live in melbourne, australia so there aren’t that many > stores selling jcm 800’s.<<< > No need to worry since none of the JCM-800’s produced were point to point.

Response:

Ok well the way it looks now, i’ll be getting an early jcm 800 2205 model, thanks for all the help! That goes for everyone else who replied too! All responses have been greatly appreciated. Now all i need to do is find someone locally with one for sale hehe. Regards Jacob Pyke

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jacob, > The point-to-point issue is a minor one.  Flying leads just make it easier > to replace pots without having to take the pc board loose.  My 2205 is 16 > years old and I have not yet worn out the pots or broken any of them.  The > 2205 is a rugged amp.  My kids have knocked mine off of the 4X12 cabinet > (Celestion G12M-70’s) on a few occasions without doing any damage to the > amp. > The effects loop is good.  I run an Alesis Wedge through mine and it sounds > great. > The 2205, with high quality tubes, is a great amp.  With anything other than > high quality tubes, it sucks.  This is a *cost of operation* issue but is a > minor issue in the whole scheme.  No amp is perfect for every application, > but the 2205 is versatile. > My advice is just buy it.  Plan on spending $170 for all new tubes.  I would > consider this in your purchase price. > Thanks, > Greg

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Question:

PT, I am also an old fart (Hit the big 50 later this year) and back in about 1978, I did the same thing as you…..No bass players around, so having 3 guitars and a steel guitar in the ‘band’, I used a bass that the drummer’s brother had, and played through a P.A. head into a homemade bottom for about 3 or 4 weeks. Then i happened on a Fender Tele Bass that a friend who owned a music store was selling (a repo sale, no less…..) Picked up a Peavey Combo bass amp with Black Widow 15" speaker and I was set. I still use that same bass and amplifier and just recently bought a PRS 5-string and am using the PRS (actually getting used to the idea of 5 strings now instead of 4) Now i am looking at picking up the Peavey FireBass 700 with 2X11 and 1X15 cabinets. Anyway, to make a long story short, I thoroughly enjoy playing bass and still play guitar in the band once in a while on a couple songs that are fun to play guitar on…..I find that bass lets me be a little more expressive with vocals. I think it is easier to sing and play bass than to sing and play lead guitar…..Hope you like it and stick with it. It will make you more valuable as a player……always good to venture out in a different direction……Take care and good luck. Allan B. Dayton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After not being able to find a bass player for my weekly jams, last week I > decided to play the bass myself.  I have a mint 70’s Jazz Bass that was my > brothers.  It has been in the closet for years.  So I put a set of > roto-sounds on it..and started practicing.  I have played guitar for 40 > years and only played the bass a little for fill in on home recordings.  I > am by no means a bassist.  Last night I brought my bass to the jam.  I > don’t have a bass amp so I used my Marshall stack and it worked out well. > I kept the volume high and the gain low and it stayed clean all night.  My > first few songs were a disaster but as the night continued I started > feeling the groove and remembering how the bass lines sounded on > recordings.  I did some 12 bar stuff that sounded ok.  Then Hey Joe, All > along the Watchtower, Some Zeppelin tunes & Black Magic Woman.  We played > for 5 hours so there were many songs.  I improvised on many of them. > Knowing the chord progressions from playing guitar helped a lot.  One of > the guys played bass for many years but he likes playing guitar better. He > gave me a few pointers.  One thing that I was doing wrong was playing an > octave too high.  I guess years of guitar soloing caused me to do that.  I > was told that I did good.  That’s all I needed.  Now I am going to stick > with the bass and see how I improve.  If all goes well I will be buying a > bass amp in the future. > I guess old farts can still learn.  I’m looking forward to next weeks jam. > Pt

Response:

[snip] >One thing that I was doing wrong was playing an > octave too high.  I guess years of guitar soloing caused me to do that.  I > was told that I did good.  That’s all I needed.  Now I am going to stick > with the bass and see how I improve.  If all goes well I will be buying a > bass amp in the future.

[snip] I’ve recently gone through the same transition and can identify with what you’re saying!  I have a habit of trying to mimic the guitar parts on many of the songs I’m familiar with, and tend to try to play up an octave too. There are quite a few nuances to bass playing that I’m just starting to pick up on (after switching from guitar to bass about 3 months ago).  But it’s alot of fun! Good luck. L.

Response:

After not being able to find a bass player for my weekly jams, last week I decided to play the bass myself.  I have a mint 70’s Jazz Bass that was my brothers.  It has been in the closet for years.  So I put a set of roto-sounds on it..and started practicing.  I have played guitar for 40 years and only played the bass a little for fill in on home recordings.  I am by no means a bassist.  Last night I brought my bass to the jam.  I don’t have a bass amp so I used my Marshall stack and it worked out well. I kept the volume high and the gain low and it stayed clean all night.  My first few songs were a disaster but as the night continued I started feeling the groove and remembering how the bass lines sounded on recordings.  I did some 12 bar stuff that sounded ok.  Then Hey Joe, All along the Watchtower, Some Zeppelin tunes & Black Magic Woman.  We played for 5 hours so there were many songs.  I improvised on many of them. Knowing the chord progressions from playing guitar helped a lot.  One of the guys played bass for many years but he likes playing guitar better.  He gave me a few pointers.  One thing that I was doing wrong was playing an octave too high.  I guess years of guitar soloing caused me to do that.  I was told that I did good.  That’s all I needed.  Now I am going to stick with the bass and see how I improve.  If all goes well I will be buying a bass amp in the future. I guess old farts can still learn.  I’m looking forward to next weeks jam. Pt

Response:

Question:

Greetings all, I’m about to embark on a bass-playing journey with two acoustic players/singers – playing small clubs mostly, and doing a lot of oldies rock acoustic/"party" music (no drummer).  I haven’t played bass in years and need to come up with an amp.  I’ve looked at a couple of bass amps and the two that intrigue me the most are the SWR Workingman 12" combo and the new(er) Ampeg Rocket Series combos (the 100W also of that series).  Doing a quick 15-20 minute demo at the local GC, I liked both the "punch" and clean tones of the SWR, but also was impressed with the more vintage tone (but less punchy/clean) of the Rocket Ampeg. So, could I trouble all of you that have experience with either of these amps for your opinions of them over the long haul.  What do you like about your amp?  What would you change?  Are your power requirements met?  How flexible are the tones you can get from your combo? Any/all feedback is much appreciated. Thanks, Mark

Response:

I don’t have any experience with the SWR amp but have owned the B-100R for over a year. I really like my ampeg. It has good volume for a 100 watt amp and the tube-like tone is great. The sound fits well into the mix. I gig mine regularly in 100-150  seat venues and it holds its’ own playing classic rock against 2 guitars and a drummer. I recently used it for a jam at a local club and the other bass players who used it and the sound person commented on the good sound this small amp spews. It is virtually silent when you are not playing. The controls are straight-forward. It isn’t super-versatile but who cares when it sounds as good as it does. My wife lets me keep it in the family room because it looks so cool. I would think that it would be perfect for the type of music you are playing. Downside. No balanced line out. There is a 1/4 out though. It’s heavy at 65 lbs but you can get casters for it, the sleeves are installed. Be careful with the blue-diamond tolex, it can get scuffed pretty easily. There are times when I’d like a bit more headroom but not that often. (I can’t imagine that being a problem for you though). Good luck Andrew Thompson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Greetings all, > I’m about to embark on a bass-playing journey with two acoustic > players/singers – playing small clubs mostly, and doing a lot of oldies rock > acoustic/"party" music (no drummer).  I haven’t played bass in years and > need to come up with an amp.  I’ve looked at a couple of bass amps and the > two that intrigue me the most are the SWR Workingman 12" combo and the > new(er) Ampeg Rocket Series combos (the 100W also of that series).  Doing a > quick 15-20 minute demo at the local GC, I liked both the "punch" and clean > tones of the SWR, but also was impressed with the more vintage tone (but > less punchy/clean) of the Rocket Ampeg. > So, could I trouble all of you that have experience with either of these > amps for your opinions of them over the long haul.  What do you like about > your amp?  What would you change?  Are your power requirements met?  How > flexible are the tones you can get from your combo? > Any/all feedback is much appreciated. > Thanks, > Mark

Response:

Question:

Anybody have a circuit diagram of a CS800 Power Amp made around 1992-93 or know where I can get one? I have a very sick amp and Id like to get it back on the rack! Regards Donal

Response:

OK…lets be a little bit more specific here. What I really need are equivalents for the following transistors: 70483180(Motorola)…I think a standard MJ15003/4 will do the job…tru or false? Secondly,an SAC187(Motorola again I think)…anybody suggest a reasonably obtainable equivalent. Thirdly,a controller,Motorola again,I suspect,just marked "242". Equivalent,please! TIA Donal

Response:

>OK…lets be a little bit more specific here. >What I really need are equivalents for the following transistors: >70483180(Motorola)…I think a standard MJ15003/4 will do the job…tru >or false?

False.  Use MJ15024. >Secondly,an SAC187(Motorola again I think)…anybody suggest a >reasonably obtainable equivalent.

Is this the crowbar triac on the little PC down by the banana plugs? Better if you use the right part here.  Magic parts has ‘em. >Thirdly,a controller,Motorola again,I suspect,just marked "242". >Equivalent,please!

What is a controller?  Do you mean the SBS device which fires the crowbar triac?  SBS= Silicon Bi-directional Switch.  ALSO a good idea to go with original equipment here, if that’s the part to which you refer.  Again, try Magic Parts. Lord Valve

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I thank thee,Lord Valve for thine invaluable assistance. Serf

Response:

Question:

It might just be my overactive imagination, but as a Marshall owner, I have experienced a little bit of attitude whenever I run into a Mesa owner. Is there some sort of "unspoken direct competition" between these two brands?  The three Mesa owners I have run into lately have a definite negative "holier than thou" attitude toward Marshall amps, which I feel is not deserved. Marshall was cranking LONG before the solder joint on the first Mesa was made, and Marshall has a long, distinguished history of fantastic sound and artist endorsement from a WIDE variety of world-famous players. Clearly, Marshall must be doing SOMETHING right. I think Mesa amps are very high quality amps, but they just don’t give me the rough, in-your-face sound that I hear from my Marshalls. They just sound a little too "polite" for my ears.  I think Marshall amps are high-quality amps just like Mesas are; furthermore, I will ALWAYS be proud to play through a Marshall and can never see myself buying any Mesa. But that doesn’t mean that I think they are crap amps. What gives? Why the attitude, guys? Different strokes for different folks and all that…

Response:

> The three Mesa owners I have run into lately have a definite > negative "holier than thou" attitude toward Marshall amps, which I > feel is not deserved.

I encounter just the opposite – some immature Marshall users act like they and their machine are mas macho que usted. I, with my Mesa Mark III, say to them, ‘lad-di-da and fiddle-dee-dee". That always puts them in their place.

Response:

This is so played out… It’s your imagination, n’kay? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It might just be my overactive imagination, but as a Marshall owner, I have > experienced a little bit of attitude whenever I run into a Mesa owner. Is there > some sort of "unspoken direct competition" between these two brands?  The three > Mesa owners I have run into lately have a definite negative "holier than thou" > attitude toward Marshall amps, which I feel is not deserved. Marshall was > cranking LONG before the solder joint on the first Mesa was made, and Marshall > has a long, distinguished history of fantastic sound and artist endorsement > from a WIDE variety of world-famous players. Clearly, Marshall must be doing > SOMETHING right. I think Mesa amps are very high quality amps, but they just > don’t give me the rough, in-your-face sound that I hear from my Marshalls. They > just sound a little too "polite" for my ears.  I think Marshall amps are > high-quality amps just like Mesas are; furthermore, I will ALWAYS be proud to > play through a Marshall and can never see myself buying any Mesa. But that > doesn’t mean that I think they are crap amps. What gives? Why the attitude, > guys? Different strokes for different folks and all that…

Response:

Play what you want to play, and don’t worry about the other guy (who’s wrong in your book, right?).  It all depends on who’s turning the knobs as to which amp is better. What kind of Marshall do you play?  Because I can almost guarantee that there’s a whole big group of Marshall fans who probably think you’re using the wrong Marshall. Pete >It might just be my overactive imagination, but as a Marshall owner, I have >experienced a little bit of attitude whenever I run into a Mesa owner. Is there >some sort of "unspoken direct competition" between these two brands?  The three >Mesa owners I have run into lately have a definite negative "holier than thou" >attitude toward Marshall amps, which I feel is not deserved. Marshall was >cranking LONG before the solder joint on the first Mesa was made, and Marshall >has a long, distinguished history of fantastic sound and artist endorsement >from a WIDE variety of world-famous players. Clearly, Marshall must be doing >SOMETHING right. I think Mesa amps are very high quality amps, but they just >don’t give me the rough, in-your-face sound that I hear from my Marshalls. They >just sound a little too "polite" for my ears.  I think Marshall amps are >high-quality amps just like Mesas are; furthermore, I will ALWAYS be proud to >play through a Marshall and can never see myself buying any Mesa. But that >doesn’t mean that I think they are crap amps. What gives? Why the attitude, >guys? Different strokes for different folks and all that…

– It came to me in a dream. I forgot it in another dream. –Prof. Farnsworth

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>What kind of Marshall do you play?

I have two Marshalls… A JTM 60 combo, and a JCM 2000 DSL 50 half-stack.  I like them both!

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>This is so played out… >It’s your imagination, n’kay?

Excuse me if I haven’t seen the thread before.  Just making an observation, n’kay? Jeeesus…

Response:

> What kind of Marshall do you play?  Because I can almost guarantee > that there’s a whole big group of Marshall fans who probably think > you’re using the wrong Marshall.

You know… there’s good ones and bad ones.  I haven’t played them all, but I found my favorite is the Mk II Master Lead.  I have one from 1979 that I got modded recently and it smokes.  I haven’t really played through a Mesa so I don’t have much of an opinion… I just know what I like and I’m happy with Marshall amps.  I have found that I like the ones like mine with the 6550 power tubes… perhaps it’s coincidence. One thing that I have noticed is that I generally don’t care for trying to have one amp be all things to all people.  I don’t like the Line 6 amps from a tone poing of view.  Granted they are versatile, but they just done have the tone I like.  I don’t know what the rest of you think, but I tend to stay away from the amps that have channel switching and reverb and try to do a bunch of different sounds.  My Mark II Master Lead is *NOT* versatile… I’ll be the first to admit it.  In fact, I’m looking for a second amp to play the clean chorused kind of stuff.  My Marshall is a one trick pony… no question.  It get’s ONE SOUND.  But… OH WHAT A SOUND IT IS… especially with the mod.  It’s got punch (more than a lot of Mesas I’ve heard… "polite" is a good word) and it can sit in a mix when recording really well. Last night I was trying to work out an arrangement to a tune I’m working on and was using a POD for scratch tracks.  Those things are great for practicing and not pissing off the neighbors, but they don’t sit well in a mix worth crap… especially if you start stacking parts… ugh… My 2 Cents.  (P.S. I heard the new Mode Four amp at NAMM and I liked that one a lot!) James Steele www.jamessteele.com A hardcore Marshall fan… and advocate of finding the "right" Marshall… there’s nothing like them. A

Response:

>It might just be my overactive imagination, but as a Marshall owner, I have >experienced a little bit of attitude whenever I run into a Mesa owner. Is there >some sort of "unspoken direct competition" between these two brands?  The three >Mesa owners I have run into lately have a definite negative "holier than thou" >attitude toward Marshall amps, which I feel is not deserved. Marshall was >cranking LONG before the solder joint on the first Mesa was made, and Marshall >has a long, distinguished history of fantastic sound and artist endorsement >from a WIDE variety of world-famous players. Clearly, Marshall must be doing >SOMETHING right. I think Mesa amps are very high quality amps, but they just >don’t give me the rough, in-your-face sound that I hear from my Marshalls. They >just sound a little too "polite" for my ears.  I think Marshall amps are >high-quality amps just like Mesas are; furthermore, I will ALWAYS be proud to >play through a Marshall and can never see myself buying any Mesa. But that >doesn’t mean that I think they are crap amps. What gives? Why the attitude, >guys? Different strokes for different folks and all that…

Yeah, but Marshalls and Mesas are both sold to guitarists. How many guitarists does it take to change a lightbulb? 11. One to change the bulb and the rest to stand there with their arms crossed saying "He’s pretty good, but I like the way I’d do it better. Ron Delenda est Carthago

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> >This is so played out… >It’s your imagination, n’kay? > Excuse me if I haven’t seen the thread before.  Just making an observation, > n’kay? > Jeeesus…

No blood, no foul. Happy with your Marshall? Everyone is happy with the amp they are happy with. Some have a chip on their shoulder. Don’t be like them. N’kay?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It might just be my overactive imagination, but as a Marshall owner, I have >experienced a little bit of attitude whenever I run into a Mesa owner. Is there >some sort of "unspoken direct competition" between these two brands?  The three >Mesa owners I have run into lately have a definite negative "holier than thou" >attitude toward Marshall amps, which I feel is not deserved. Marshall was >cranking LONG before the solder joint on the first Mesa was made, and Marshall >has a long, distinguished history of fantastic sound and artist endorsement >from a WIDE variety of world-famous players. Clearly, Marshall must be doing >SOMETHING right. I think Mesa amps are very high quality amps, but they just >don’t give me the rough, in-your-face sound that I hear from my Marshalls. They >just sound a little too "polite" for my ears.  I think Marshall amps are >high-quality amps just like Mesas are; furthermore, I will ALWAYS be proud to >play through a Marshall and can never see myself buying any Mesa. But that >doesn’t mean that I think they are crap amps. What gives? Why the attitude, >guys? Different strokes for different folks and all that… > Yeah, but Marshalls and Mesas are both sold to guitarists. > How many guitarists does it take to change a lightbulb? > 11. One to change the bulb and the rest to stand there with their arms > crossed saying "He’s pretty good, but I like the way I’d do it better.

How many poets does it take to change a lightbulb? . . . . . . . Two.  One to write about his mother, and one to stand in the window and watch the rain.

Response:

Hello,     There has been and will continue to be a friendly rivalry between guitarists, amp builders, etc.  Take it as just people exchanging points of view.  If you see someone who gets carried away, figure that they are either immature or having lots of self-doubt as to their playing skills and musical choices they are making.     Otherwise the Mesa guys I’ve met and exchanged e-mails with have been just fine considering that they don’t own Marshalls (grin….).  The other guitar player in our band, "The Relics," has as one of his choices a Mesa Boogie 100/60 watt combo, and he can sound pretty good through it.  He also has a Mesa rack system.  Right now the tone-to-the-bone that he’s having fun with is an AC-30 reissue with Celestion alnico speakers.  But since Rex is good, he sounds good through pretty much anything he plays through, including Mesa.     The fact that there are a lot of choices is good for us as players.  I try to encourage guys like Gary and Doug, fellow AGA’ers, who are building and selling amps, because their success is good for all of us as guitar players.  Likewise Bob with Smicz Amplification, makers of the TAD tube socket adapters.  Our resident tube vendors like LV, Jim McShane and Ned, are guys who we ought to be cheering on, because their success is good for us.  I can never understand guys who don’t want to see others succeed in making and selling guitar-related items, because their success ultimately helps everyone of us on AGA, and the greater good of guitar players everywhere.  I regard folks here on the AGA as my brothers and sisters in our common love of music, and I want and encourage my friends to succeed and prosper.  It’s good all the way around.     That’s my more-than-two-cents opinion, anyway.  Being true to oneself, and creating a signature tone and sound, is what it’s all about as far as I’m concerned.  That and having a lot of fun as well (grin….).  Live long and prosper, my brothers and sisters.     Walk in Beauty, Peace.  Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It might just be my overactive imagination, but as a Marshall owner, I have >experienced a little bit of attitude whenever I run into a Mesa owner. Is there >some sort of "unspoken direct competition" between these two brands?  The three >Mesa owners I have run into lately have a definite negative "holier than thou" >attitude toward Marshall amps, which I feel is not deserved. Marshall was >cranking LONG before the solder joint on the first Mesa was made, and Marshall >has a long, distinguished history of fantastic sound and artist endorsement >from a WIDE variety of world-famous players. Clearly, Marshall must be doing >SOMETHING right. I think Mesa amps are very high quality amps, but they just >don’t give me the rough, in-your-face sound that I hear from my Marshalls. They >just sound a little too "polite" for my ears.  I think Marshall amps are >high-quality amps just like Mesas are; furthermore, I will ALWAYS be proud to >play through a Marshall and can never see myself buying any Mesa. But that >doesn’t mean that I think they are crap amps. What gives? Why the attitude, >guys? Different strokes for different folks and all that…

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Response:

>Some have a chip on their shoulder. >Don’t be like them.

I never try to be like those people. But it actually kind of sounded like you were the one who had a bit of a chip, that’s all.  I was just making an observation.  If you don’t think my observation was valid, that’s cool, you didn’t have to respond.  No need to try to cop an attitude about it.

Response:

> >Some have a chip on their shoulder. >Don’t be like them. > I never try to be like those people. But it actually kind of sounded like you > were the one who had a bit of a chip, that’s all.  I was just making an > observation.  If you don’t think my observation was valid, that’s cool, you > didn’t have to respond.  No need to try to cop an attitude about it.

"I will ALWAYS be proud to play through a Marshall and can never see myself buying any Mesa." Hmmm…pride…say, I forget…who is it that has a chip? I’ll respond when I feel like it, thank you, whether it is pro or con. I have a coupla Marshalls, and I like Mesas for what they do, and excellent cabs. You have a Marshall, you like it, I like mine…but I like my Fenders a whole lot better… Ignore gear bigots. They are out there…who cares? Walk in beauty, etc. – FH

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> It might just be my overactive imagination, but as a Marshall owner, I have > experienced a little bit of attitude whenever I run into a Mesa owner. Is

there actually the new marshall amps sucks. They sound bad, they cost a lot (here in Italy, don’t know in other countries) and the general quality of build isn’t good as other equivalent cost-level brands. Mesa builds very good amps that costs more than I can or want afford, and sincerily speaking, don’t like these amps because the lacks of versatility. I’ve found my tone-nirvana with a PSA-1, Advance Tubetech power amp and a g-major coupled with an alesis q20.

Response:

Hey man, don’t worry about it.  So what, they bought something different from you.  If that makes ‘em think they’re better for some reason then their priorities are mixed up.  People that define themselves by the brand of gear they purchased aren’t worth your time.

Response:

  Isn’t it just kind of like the Ford/Chevy thing? People just kind of pick sides (usually it’s whichever one they have) and go with it. Like sports teams, or something?   I look at my love for tube amps and guitars as very similar to the grease monkey’s obsession with cars. It’s identical in almost every way.

Response:

Hell, finance permitting, I’d have Marshall, Mesa, Rivera and Bogner.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   Isn’t it just kind of like the Ford/Chevy thing? People just kind of pick > sides (usually it’s whichever one they have) and go with it. Like sports teams, > or something? >   I look at my love for tube amps and guitars as very similar to the grease > monkey’s obsession with cars. It’s identical in almost every way.

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Let’s face it, we all basically want an old Fender Twin for clean, a Plexi for crunch, and an old Mark or Studio series for lead – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   Isn’t it just kind of like the Ford/Chevy thing? People just kind of pick > sides (usually it’s whichever one they have) and go with it. Like sports teams, > or something? >   I look at my love for tube amps and guitars as very similar to the grease > monkey’s obsession with cars. It’s identical in almost every way.

Response:

I play a Les Paul through a Marshall 2203 100 watt amp. My last amp was a JCM 900 Dual reverb. Both amps have EL-34’s. I love the sound of a Marshall and nothing compares with it no matter how hard they try. The other guitar player in my band plays a Les Paul through a Mesa Boogie. I don’t know just what model but it top of the line from about 6 or 7 years ago. It is a combo with an EV 12 inch speaker. I used this amp on a few occasions and found it too complicated to dial in a good sound but it is very loud. Up till recently he has been sounding better than me mostly because I was using a Yamaha strat. Now I am sounding better with my Les Paul. Neither of us say that our amp is better than the other. But I know my Marshall will eat boogies for breakfast. I’m sure he knows it too. Pt

Response:

On a more serious reply. An amp is an instrument just as much as a guitar. What ever amp we have we learn to play it and we learn where the best sounds are. I may get beautiful sounds from my Marshall while you can’ get it to sound any better than a 15 watt SS amp. One good amp is no better than another. It is all in the way we play our amps. Pt

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. I think Mesa amps are very high quality amps, but they just > don’t give me the rough, in-your-face sound that I hear from my Marshalls. They > just sound a little too "polite" for my ears.

Then keep playing your Marshall and don’t buy a Mesa. Jeez. I own one of each. A Mark IV and a JCM 800 Lead Series. They both kick ass, but I’ve gotta say that the Boogie is a higer-quality, amp.  They’re handmade in a small factory and use the highest-quality compontents. Marshall has mass-produced some stuff that is pure junk, (Valvestate, JCM 900 to name a couple.) and they’ve definitely been guilty of using cheaper components to cut costs. You can’t argue with great tone though, and plenty of Marshalls are very kick ass amps. My JCM 800 does one thing, but does it DAMN good I gotta admit, where the Mark IV does everything you’d ever want.and does it just as good if not better than a Marshall.. BTW, I don’t know if you’ve heard a Mark IV or not, but "polite" is definitely not an applicable adjective for the lead channel (or even the rhythm 2 channel) on this beast. Same for the Rectifiers and the mighty Road King.. These amps have the ablility to shock, offend and even hurt unsuspecting folks. Isn’t that what it’s all about?. Peace…

Response:

> My JCM 800 does one thing, but does it DAMN good I gotta admit, where the > Mark IV does everything you’d ever want.and does it just as good if not > better than a Marshall..

The Mark IV can’ t even come close to getting an authentic Marshall sound. Not only can the Mesa not do everything I’d ever want… it can’t do anything I’d ever want.

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> The Mark IV can’ t even come close to getting an authentic Marshall sound.

The Mark IV does not try to authenticate a Marshall sound. It is not a modeling amp. > Not only can the Mesa not do everything I’d ever want… it can’t do > anything I’d ever want.

I doubt you’ve spent any time trying. This amp just takes a little time and patience to get it dialed it in the way you want it. But once you do.. THE TONE!!!! Time well spent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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>Then keep playing your Marshall and don’t buy a Mesa. Jeez.

I thought that’s what he did.  Why get upset about it. >I own one of each. A Mark IV and a JCM 800 Lead Series. They both kick ass, >but I’ve gotta say that the Boogie is a higer-quality, amp.  They’re >handmade in a small factory and use the highest-quality compontents.

The JCM800 (and older) Marshalls are built as well, or better, than anything that’s eery come out of the Mesa/Boogie factory.  The newer ones certainly have their issues.  Mesa/Boogies aren’t as good as they used to be either, but the drop hasn’t been nearly as far.  (Compare the guts of your Mk IV to a Mk II to see what I mean.  No bad, but not as good as the older one for component selection, PCB strength, etc.) >My JCM 800 does one thing, but does it DAMN good I gotta admit, where the >Mark IV does everything you’d ever want.and does it just as good if not >better than a Marshall..

I’ve never found a single tone in a Mk IV that does anything for me.  They have a lot of different sounds in there.  Unfortunately, like all the Boogies, they have a very narrow range that results in the sweet spot and nothing very interesting outside of that.  If you dig that specific tone, that’s great.  (Unfortunately, a change in rooms requires redialing the whole thing in from scratch.)  If you like them, enjoy them.  All the switching options are nice, but don’t try to tell us that they’ll "do everything you’d ever want" because they don’t. >BTW, I don’t know if you’ve heard a Mark IV or not, >but "polite" is definitely not an applicable adjective for the lead channel >(or even the rhythm 2 channel) on this beast. Same for the Rectifiers and >the mighty Road King.. These amps have the ablility to shock, offend and >even hurt unsuspecting folks. Isn’t that what it’s all about?.

You misunderstand what the original poster was refering to.  I think I know.  Marshalls have an inherent grit/dirtiness to them (the classic crunch that no Mesa/Boogie can get).  None of the amps you mention can do that.  They have a smoothness to them (especaily the actual Boogies – the Rectos can get closer) that’s always there – no hair on the sound.  I assume you’re refering to how much distortion they have, whereas he was refering to the character of the sound. Ross

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>> The Mark IV can’ t even come close to getting an authentic Marshall sound. >The Mark IV does not try to authenticate a Marshall sound. It is not a >modeling amp.

You said it can do anything you’d ever want.  Which is it?  Can it do that or not?  I understand what you’re trying to say,  but it isn’t the way you came off. > Not only can the Mesa not do everything I’d ever want… it can’t do > anything I’d ever want. >I doubt you’ve spent any time trying. This amp just takes a little time and >patience to get it dialed it in the way you want it. But once you do.. THE >TONE!!!! Time well spent.

Just accept the fact that some of us find the tone of that amps, and it’s brothers, to be flat and uninspiring.  (In fact, I’d take a Mk II or Mk III any day of the week over the M IV…less options, more tone.)  Even if I liked the tone of them, all the dialing headaches associated with these amps wouldn’t be worth the hassle to me.  Guitar is about playing, not about knob twiddling for me.  Give me simple:  clean and distortion and a minimum of knobs…oh, and lots of tone. If I want to get into three channel+ heads there are a lot of other options out there besides either Marshall or Mesa that I’d choose.  Both companies seem to loose tone as they add channels, and other options. Ross  

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Question:

What are they – electronically speaking…tonally? Thx Tim

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> What are they – electronically speaking…tonally? > Thx Tim

Hi, Instead of answering your question, there is a book by JC Maillet "Inside Fender and Marshall tube amps" Worth reading if you’re really interested. Do a search using his name. Tony

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Tonally each model varies from year to year and how much effort CBS put into em to improve the terrible tone of the Black Faced amps.Yeah right!! It varies.Which model and 2 years post CBS 4 yrs?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What are they – electronically speaking…tonally? > Thx Tim

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Depends on the model and the year.  Silverface amps "evolved" (maybe "devolved" is a better word… we are not men, we are Devo) over the years. Early silverface amps are often the same inside as the blackface amps.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What are they – electronically speaking…tonally? > Thx Tim

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I’m referring to either a 69 or 70 silverface.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What are they – electronically speaking…tonally? > Thx Tim

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>I’m referring to either a 69 or 70 silverface. > What are they – electronically speaking…tonally? > Thx Tim

should be close – you would need to make the bias adjustable up and down (instead of or in addition to side to side), clip the suppression caps, and change a few resistors – and that should be it.  Look at the Fender amp field guide and see if they have the blackface and the early silverface layout, then compare the two.  You conver the silverface to the blackface specs.  While in there, check the caps and do normal maintenance.  Should be ready to go. How will they sound different?  Well, the blackface will likely sound prettier and more punchy with more complex upper high end sparkle if all thinks are pretty well equal.  The differences are subtle but definitely are there.  After you "blackface" the circuit, there will likely be NO differences. Thorny

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You’re welcome.Think nothing of it shithead! Adams

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What are they – electronically speaking…tonally? > Thx Tim

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Question:

        I recently bought a 66 Bassman with ‘RUBY’ tubes in it.. Has anybody ever heard of these? I am thinking about replacing them. Where can I get a matched pair that would sound good in it? Milan To reply, remove the !.

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Plechata) writes: >    I recently bought a 66 Bassman with ‘RUBY’ tubes in it.. Has anybody >ever heard of these? I am thinking about replacing them. Where can I >get a matched pair that would sound good in it? >Milan >To reply, remove the !.

Lord Valve Speaketh: ‘Ruby’ (Magic Parts) is a rebrander/packager/tester/matcher outfit, not a manufacturer.  Those tubes could be almost anything.  The Ruby folks are pretty good about matching and quality control, but you have to have considerable tube savvy to eyeball a Ruby tube and tell where it came from.  If you are going to use Ruby Tubes in that amp, I would recommend the STR-007, which is a Chinese tube of fair quality.  My own recommendation would be a Phillips NOS 7581A, with the Phillips NOS 6L6WGB small-bottle type in second place. DON’T neglect the rebiasing proceedure!!                            Lord Valve                            (Fat Willie)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Plechata) writes: >        I recently bought a 66 Bassman with ‘RUBY’ tubes in it.. Has >anybody >ever heard of these? I am thinking about replacing them. Where can I >get a matched pair that would sound good in it? >Milan >To reply, remove the !. >Lord Valve Speaketh: >’Ruby’ (Magic Parts) is a rebrander/packager/tester/matcher outfit, not >a manufacturer.  Those tubes could be almost anything.  The Ruby folks >are pretty good about matching and quality control, but you have to >have considerable tube savvy to eyeball a Ruby tube and tell where it >came from.  If you are going to use Ruby Tubes in that amp, I would >recommend the STR-007, which is a Chinese tube of fair quality.  My own >recommendation would be a Phillips NOS 7581A, with the Phillips NOS >6L6WGB small-bottle type in second place. DON’T neglect the rebiasing >proceedure!! >                           Lord Valve >                           (Fat Willie)

        Can I bias it myself or should I let a tech do it or does it have to be biased if I get a matched pair of tubes? To reply, remove the !.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Plechata) writes: >Plechata) writes: >>    I recently bought a 66 Bassman with ‘RUBY’ tubes in it.. Has >anybody >>ever heard of these? I am thinking about replacing them. Where can I >>get a matched pair that would sound good in it? >>Milan >>To reply, remove the !. >Lord Valve Speaketh: >’Ruby’ (Magic Parts) is a rebrander/packager/tester/matcher outfit, not >a manufacturer.  Those tubes could be almost anything.  The Ruby folks >are pretty good about matching and quality control, but you have to >have considerable tube savvy to eyeball a Ruby tube and tell where it >came from.  If you are going to use Ruby Tubes in that amp, I would >recommend the STR-007, which is a Chinese tube of fair quality.  My own >recommendation would be a Phillips NOS 7581A, with the Phillips NOS >6L6WGB small-bottle type in second place. DON’T neglect the rebiasing >proceedure!! >                           Lord Valve >                           (Fat Willie) >    Can I bias it myself or should I let a tech do it or does it have to >be biased if I get a matched pair of tubes?

Sure, if you have the gear, you can do it yourself.  It has to be biased whether your new tubes are matched or not.  If you don’t have electronics chops, and good test equipment, have it done by a pro. LV

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: >>      I recently bought a 66 Bassman with ‘RUBY’ tubes in it.. Has : >anybody : >>ever heard of these? I am thinking about replacing them. Where can I : >>get a matched pair that would sound good in it? Read the Tube Amp FAQ. There are only a few (like three or four) places on the planet where new tubes are made. Everyone else — EVERYONE ELSE — is a tester and relabeler. :       Can I bias it myself or should I let a tech do it or does it have to : be biased if I get a matched pair of tubes? Read the Tube Amp FAQ. There is a long section on what, why, and how is biasing. Also a section on what matched tubes are and why you may or may not want them. The Tube Amp FAQ is on line at http://www.eden.com/~keen/

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Ruby tubes are the same as SOVTEK, Only the printing is different. Svetlana tubes are better. I have rubys in my Mesa Boogie Bass amp and they are great. Sgs Calgary

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(Stewart Smith) writes: >Ruby tubes are the same as SOVTEK, Only the printing is different. >Svetlana tubes are better. I have rubys in my Mesa Boogie Bass amp and >they are great. >Sgs Calgary

Lord Valve Speaketh: Ruby tubes ARE NOT the same as Sovtek.  SOME Ruby tubes are of Sovtek manufacture, and many are NOT.  Ruby, like Groove Tubes and Audio Glassic, buys tubes from many different manufacturers, and tests, matches, and re-brands them.  As I stated in an earlier post, if you don’t have the tube savvy to eyeball a tube and tell who built it, you can’t count identifying a Ruby as any specific type.  You can call ‘em, though…they’re good folks, and if you can describe what you are looking at accurately enough, they will tell you where it originally came from.                                Lord Valve                                (Fat Willie)

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>    Can I bias it myself or should I let a tech do it or does it have to >be biased if I get a matched pair of tubes?

See the Tube Amp FAQ at http://www.eden.com/~keen Biasing it yourself is possible with a multimeter, IF YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT SAFELY. If you don’t, get a tech to do it. You can die if you touch the wrong things inside there. Yes, every amp needs to be rebiased if you put in new output tubes. Matching has nothing to do with whether it needs rebiased or not. Matching only means that the two new tubes draw similar amounts of current for a little while until they age a bit.

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>Ruby tubes are the same as SOVTEK, Only the printing is different. >Svetlana tubes are better. I have rubys in my Mesa Boogie Bass amp and >they are great. >Sgs Calgary

Not all Rubys are Sovtek, About half of the line is Chinese and they also have Svetlana. Their STR line appears to be Tesla from the description but I haven’t actually purchased any. Their line is much like Groove Tubes. They have a new 7025STR that has had good reviews. Is it the same as the Teslovak GT ECC83? Pat Bunn

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ruby tubes are the same as SOVTEK, Only the printing is different. >Svetlana tubes are better. I have rubys in my Mesa Boogie Bass amp and >they are great. >Sgs Calgary >Not all Rubys are Sovtek, About half of the line is Chinese and they >also have Svetlana. Their STR line appears to be Tesla from the >description but I haven’t actually purchased any. >Their line is much like Groove Tubes. >They have a new 7025STR that has had good reviews. Is it the same as the >Teslovak GT ECC83?

Nope…Chinese. LV

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